usability: On-screen keyboard layouts

[salival]

Although the rockword keyboard looks nice, the querty layout is one of the least usefull layouts to be used for an onscreen keyboard. This for the reason that the querty layout was constructed to prevent jamming of old typewriters. This meant that the most used letters needed to be placed far apart from each other.

On-screen this means that you need to make a lot of (unnecessary) movement.
For onscreen typing a simple alphabetic scheme is much more convenient. Or even the Dvorak keyboard layout would, imo, be much faster.
The alphabet scheme is used in many console-games, which also suffer from the limit of buttons.

The current available rockbox onscreen keyboards do their job, but it's far from optimal.
I think it would be better if there was a single, for onscreen optimised keyboard layout.

What do others think about this?

(disclaimer-ish thingy: this is in now way meant to bash or offend anyone, just general discussion )

[Llorean]

Well, the *normal* virtual keyboard (the one that's used when saving config files for example) seems to meet your conditions. Did you forget about it?

[salival]

I didn't forget about it and it is pretty usable, but (there's always a but) it is not optimal. I think there are too many letters onscreen at the same time, therefore it may appear cluttered. Because of all those characters on screen at the same time, they need to be smaller than they have to be. For some users with bad eyesight (to put it bluntly) this might cause difficulties.

In my view only the letters of the alphabet need to be on screen. Add a shift and capslock button to accomodate uppercase letters and a 'symbols' button for other characters. That way the characters can be larger which means it becomes more usable.

[Yngwiejo]

I agree, characters are too small for the H300 screen. We need an update on this. Don't forget that Rockbox pre-existed in other Daps that have smaller screens than the H300 has.

[Llorean]

Ah, but see, you didn't say any of that in the previous post.

I dunno, I personally like having access to everything at once, without having to toggle to see my other selections (for symbols especially). But I can see value in a large-font equivalent.

And as a note, I use an H120, and a Nano. And I *like* the Rockbox default font on my tiny screen. Hehehe.

[Evolv3d]

Nevermind sorry...

[salival]

To add some constructive comments I created a mockup of a onscreen keyboard. There is room for improvement (ie. readability), but this it the direction I would like to see the RB keyboard going.

link backup link

This layout uses less screenspace than the rockword keyboard for instance.
Additional keys can be added under the numeric pad and by resizing the spacebar.

Back to you guys

[Crossfire238]

that is a great looking keyboard salival

[pimp_daddy_smurf]

Originally Posted by salival

To add some constructive comments I created a mockup of a onscreen keyboard. There is room for improvement (ie. readability), but this it the direction I would like to see the RB keyboard going.


This layout uses less screenspace than the rockword keyboard for instance.
Additional keys can be added under the numeric pad and by resizing the spacebar.

Back to you guys

You support a very good point salival. if ease and quickness is where rockbox is headed......that would make a great layout. then you could have the record button set to change the letters to smileys or characters(whatever you may have to put in there)

[o0260o]

completly another idea i just came up with
to switch betwen columns is left/right and then up or down to choose letter
then for example up is A and up,up is B and so on
then record button can be space
AB EF IJ MN QR UV YZ

CD GH KL OP ST WX /.

[Danielson1218]

This is a 100% unnecessary comment, but sorry i just have to point it out...

Originally Posted by salival

The current available rockbox onscreen keyboards do their job, but it's far from optimal.
I think it would be better if there was a single, for onscreen optimised keyboard layout.

He did say it in the previous post.

On topic, the pic salival posted isnt loading for me, but i can kind of picture it from the descriptions and reactions. sounds like a great idea to me, especially as rockbox advances to have plugins like a wiki reader with a search function. Personally i dont mind small font, but with that in mind, compression of keyboard space could leave room for something else, like part of the file tree or a mini wps bar or something.

[salival]

fixed image

[Bad One]

Umm... savial, there isn't an 8 on the keyboard. Don't mean to nitpick but it jumped out at me.

[salival]

oops

And then the solution, here goes:
Imagine the 8 where the nine is, the nine where the 0 is and the 0 under the 8 which would be located where the 9 is at the moment.

like this:

[Yngwiejo]

This is a minor thing...You can still type 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,eight, 9! Voila!

Ok...just joking...This is a mockup though, no big deal! BTW I find this keyboard very eye-friendly.

[Bad One]

So do I, it was just something to notice. I'm in a study right now with not much to do...

[Llorean]

Rockbox is supposed to work the same on all targets though. So ideally any keyboard design should be one that can be scaled easily to all targets. Right now the current virtual keyboard works the same on all of them, though on very small screened (in terms of pixels, not physical size) devices, it shows smaller subsections of the keyboard that you toggle through.

So, generally speaking, the best solution would just to be to use a larger font for the vkeyboard on H300s, to preserve the "works the same everywhere" philosophy.

[Yngwiejo]

Originally Posted by Llorean

Rockbox is supposed to work the same on all targets though. So ideally any keyboard design should be one that can be scaled easily to all targets. Right now the current virtual keyboard works the same on all of them, though on very small screened (in terms of pixels, not physical size) devices, it shows smaller subsections of the keyboard that you toggle through.

So, generally speaking, the best solution would just to be to use a larger font for the vkeyboard on H300s, to preserve the "works the same everywhere" philosophy.

Well... AFAIK, Rockbox code is organized by definitions ("#ifdef"). By using these definitions, when you compile a build for a specific target, the compiler, compiles all the definitions for the specific target you want, ignoring all others. Here's an a example:

#ifdef LCD=colour then
code1
#ifdef LCD=grayscale then
code2

Now...if you compile a version for the H300, code1 will be compiled while code2 will be ignored. This is the way how Rockbox code can run in different platforms. That's why we have colour in H300s and not for H100s, remote support for irivers and not for archos players etc. This way we can surely have a bigger keyboard like that on H300 and smaller ones for targets with smaller screen.

[Llorean]

You misread what I said. The functionality should be the same. Both can have different keyboards, but the key layout, and button presses used to navigate the keyboards should be as similar across all targets as possible.

[Yngwiejo]

Originally Posted by Llorean

should be as similar across all targets as possible.

I agree on this. This is the idea, yes.

[musichound]

Originally Posted by salival

For some users with bad eyesight (to put it bluntly) this might cause difficulties.

Ditto for me. I have bad eyesight and I always strain my eyes with the virtual keyboard.

[Llorean]

So, how would you make his keyboard work on a screen that's too small to show the keyboard? If you just use letters as the keys, then it's fine, even for the character cell targets, but if you try to draw lines around them, that won't work elsewhere. Also, there's no real reason any key should be bigger than any other, except to waste space.

[salival]

I made a mockup for other targets aswell.

On the actual screen it should look clearer, since this image uses antialiasing, which makes the small text less readable. The archos version uses about the same space as the one used in the calendar app.