Problems with the Hold switches

[Base]

I've done a search, but couldn't find any mention of this...

I installed Rockbox yesterday, not bad but I am going back to the FW until an official release because of one really annoying bug that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned here.

If the remote is plugged in, BOTH on-hold switches (on the main unit and the remote) have to be set to off to switch it on (as opposed to just the one on whichever part you are using to switch it on). Since this is the first thing you do and controlled by the bootloader, the problem is there regardless of which operating system you want to use as long as you have the rockbox patched firmware installed.

This may not seem a major problem, but it means you have to dig the player out of a pocket or bag to flick a switch to turn it on and can't use the remote to do it, which is a big deal to me, it is a portable player after all. I've already removed rockbox but left the patched firmware on thinking it wouldn't matter, but of course with this bug it does

Is this going to be sorted out before the first official release? Everything else looks great (apart from the remote display, but I've found info on that) so it would be a shame for this to stay in...

[bagder]

Originally Posted by Base

Is this going to be sorted out before the first official release?

I don't think anyone has even started to consider an official release, so it wouldn't be possible to tell.

If someone fixes the bug it will be fixed. If that happens before or after an "official release", it is impossible to tell.

Personally, I couldn't care less.

[Tech_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Base

If the remote is plugged in, BOTH on-hold switches (on the main unit and the remote) have to be set to off to switch it on (as opposed to just the one on whichever part you are using to switch it on).

I don't know that I would call this a bug. It seems to me that if either hold switch is on, the unit should be in hold mode. If the iRiver firmware works as you describe, then that means you could have the main unit on hold, but still power it up with the remote. That would really worry me if I ever used the remote (I don't).

If you decide to keep the Rockbox firmware and you operate the unit with the remote, then you just have to set the hold switch on the main unit once and forget about it. I don't understand the problem.

TC

[musichound]

Isn't there a way you can boot the player to the native format while still keeping Rockbox installed on the player?

[Mmmm]

This would be a really annoying bug, but i just turned my player on with the remote when the main unit was on hold! I also just turned it on using the main unit when the remote was on hold!

So on my player at least, there is no bug! Unless I misunderstood your problem!

[Base]

Ok, to clarify. With the regular iRiver FW, you only have to have the hold switch set to off on whichever part you are using to switch it on, so you can have the main unit set to on-hold and switch it on via the remote. I don't see why this is a worry, you just switch it on, start it playing then set the remote to on-hold and all is well.

With Rockbox, BOTH switches need to be set to off, or it will refuse to switch on, meaning pulling the main unit out of my pocket to turn it on, which if you are outside walking is a pain in the rear!

Since the problem seems to be in the bootloader, before either operating system is loaded, the bug is still effective regardless of which operating system you try to load.

Mmmm, You understand the problem, I don't understand why yours works tho and mine doesn't?!? I only installed Rockbox a couple of days ago, I assumed to the latest version. I'll try todays build later when I get a chance, it would be typical of them to have fixed it the day after I installed it and posted this thread

Thanks all for the replies anyway....

[Jonny]

Do you have the newest bootloader?

[OnlyReed]

Originally Posted by Tech_Cowboy

I don't know that I would call this a bug. It seems to me that if either hold switch is on, the unit should be in hold mode. If the iRiver firmware works as you describe, then that means you could have the main unit on hold, but still power it up with the remote. That would really worry me if I ever used the remote (I don't).

If you decide to keep the Rockbox firmware and you operate the unit with the remote, then you just have to set the hold switch on the main unit once and forget about it. I don't understand the problem.

TC

definitely a bug.....you should be able to have the main unit, for example, in your backpack, and just turn the whole thing on with the remote, etc., and play from there. when the player is in your bag, you wanna have the 'hold' on, or all hell will, most certainly, break loose.

[Base]

AFAIK it is the latest version, but I'll re-d/l the latest stuff from the RB site later when I get the chance and repatch and install...

[Tech_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Base

I don't see why this is a worry, you just switch it on, start it playing then set the remote to on-hold and all is well.

My concern was that even with the main unit on hold, you can still inadvertently turn it on with the remote and run your battery down. I guess that’s why the remote also has a hold switch.

TC

[Base]

Could someone point me to the latest version of the bootloader? The only version I can find is in the 'Installing Rockbox' thread at the top of this page, and that is the one I used last time, so I'm hoping isn't the latest version...!

[Mmmm]

The latest version is version 5 so if your player says

Rockbox Bootloader
Version 5

when you press the play button (to turn it on) then you are up to date!

If not then click Here for the fwpatcher program which will patch your iriver firmware to bootloader V5.

Is it just for switching on that you have the problem? Can you still use the remote when it's on and the main unit is on hold?

[Base]

No use, I tried that version of the bootloader and the problem still exists

How come this only seems to affect my particular unit?!?!?

[fairf]

Are you trying to boot Rockbox or the original firmware?

I'm using RB bootloader v5, with fireflys remote build. I can turn on the main unit from the remote with the main unit on HOLD, using 'Play' to start Rockbox.

I tried this morning to boot the iRiver firmware from the remote using 'Rec+Play' and I got the iRiver 'HOLD' message, even with the remotr hold off. 'Rec+Play' works from the remote if hold is off on both the remote and the main unit, but not if hold is only off on the remote.

This probably makes sense to those who know how the remote is wired up...

[linus]

Here's how it works:

The original (and also the desired, IIRC) behaviour is that the Hold switch only controls the respective device. This is how the original firmware works with an unpatched firmware.

Now, how is the firmware supposed to know which button was used to start the device, the main Play button or the remote? Answer: it reads the button inputs at boot to see which one it was.

Problem: What if the user lets go of the button before the firmware manages to read the inputs? The firmware will see that one of the Hold switches is ON, but neither Play or Remote Play is pushed. In this case, the original firmware assumes that it was the Play key (or RESET), and not the remote.

When the Rockbox bootloader is installed, it won't start the original firmware until after sensing the Rec button, and possibly not until it has failed to boot Rockbox, which can take several seconds. By then, the user is sure to have let go of the Play button. The original firmware will not see any Play buttons, and assumes that the main Play was pushed.

The Rockbox boot loader has issues with the Play/Hold buttons, and we will fix those, but there is nothing we can do to handle the issues with the original firmware. The only solution is to hold the Play button until the original firmware detects it.

[Base]

So if I hold down play on the remote for a few seconds, it will let me switch it on from the remote??

[linus]

Originally Posted by Base

So if I hold down play on the remote for a few seconds, it will let me switch it on from the remote??

Try it. You'll like it. .-)

[Base]

That does it! Marvellous, thanks everyone that replied!!!

Strange that I seem to be the only one that has come on here with this problem, is the remote really htat rarely used?? Or am I the only one dim enough to have not figured out how to use it on my own

[Mmmm]

This is really weird!

I use the remote and it works fine: hold switch on on main unit, short press on remote or long press, it doesnt matter, both work fine!

The only thing that doesnt work which i realise is a recognised bug (as linus pointed out) is that with both holds on, a short press on the remote will still switch the player on.

But on re-reading, I think you might only be talking about booting the original firmware which i never do because...well...wha t's the point?. My player does exibit the behaviour you describe when booting the original firmware! So maybe it's not weird at all!!

[Base]

Eh?!?!?

I just tried that, and if I have both hold switches on, then it won't tun on no matter what combination of long / short / record button presses I try?!?! I can get into rockbox or iriver f/w with just the unit on hold now tho with no problems.

Very strange, is there perhaps 2 different models of the remote out there that work slightly differently...?

[Mmmm]

Originally Posted by Base

Eh?!?!?

I just tried that, and if I have both hold switches on, then it won't tun on no matter what combination of long / short / record button presses I try?!?! I can get into rockbox or iriver f/w with just the unit on hold now tho with no problems.

Very strange, is there perhaps 2 different models of the remote out there that work slightly differently...?

Ok...it definitely is weird then