More Blasts in London

[ManchesterUnited4Life]

Originally Posted by mitchellknell

...its the FACT that of these suicide bombings have been inacted by people of Middle Eastern decent

Oh, if only you knew mitchell!

The bomber who killed the most people in the 7/7 attacks was JAMAICAN. So much for fact ...

[mitchellknell]

Originally Posted by ManchesterUnited4Lif e

Oh, if only you knew mitchell!

The bomber who killed the most people in the 7/7 attacks was JAMAICAN. So much for fact ...

like i said asaik...and im taking this on the whole, not just what happened recently, but over the years, sept 11, madrid, etc....i dont hear about anyone else blowing themselves up along with innocent men, women, and children other than people of Middle Eastern descent, if im wrong, please let me know...and and theres no reason to take an attitude with me, im not deliberately saying anything derrogatory, just trying to spark a discussion...i mean in the end, dont WE ALL want to see an end to this death and destruction? what are your solutions to this problem?

[DemonicOmelette]

I may be wrong, but wasn't the guy who got busted trying to light a bomb in his shoe last year white?

I don't know. He certainly looked fair skinned in all his pictures. And I KNOW at least one of the guys in Guantanamo is white.

Ooh, let's panic and arrest all the brown folk. Hey, here's a way to stop Moderate Muslims from growing hateful of the west and turning to extremism. Pick on them. Yeah. That will work.

-me

[mitchellknell]

Originally Posted by DemonicOmelette

I may be wrong, but wasn't the guy who got busted trying to light a bomb in his shoe last year white?

I don't know. He certainly looked fair skinned in all his pictures. And I KNOW at least one of the guys in Guantanamo is white.

Ooh, let's panic and arrest all the brown folk. Hey, here's a way to stop Moderate Muslims from growing hateful of the west and turning to extremism. Pick on them. Yeah. That will work.

-me

wow...i dont remember saying arrest all the brown people...

[DemonicOmelette]

Never said you did. But it has been suggested in this thread that we ought to start searching everyone who fits the "profile" of a terrorist, i.e. Muslim.

Now that I think about it, weren't the terrorists that blew up the nightclub in Bali Indonesian? Well, there's another group we should all fear.

Let's see, we now have Middle-Eastern, Pakistani, Jamaican, Indonesian, white folk who have converted to Islam...

It's going to start being very hard to know who to hassle!

-me

[mitchellknell]

Originally Posted by DemonicOmelette

Never said you did. But it has been suggested in this thread that we ought to start searching everyone who fits the "profile" of a terrorist, i.e. Muslim.

Now that I think about it, weren't the terrorists that blew up the nightclub in Bali Indonesian? Well, there's another group we should all fear.

Let's see, we now have Middle-Eastern, Pakistani, Jamaican, Indonesian, white folk who have converted to Islam...

It's going to start being very hard to know who to hassle!

i guess you didnt read my previous post as to why i think it should be done...its just an idea and its nothing new to law enforcement...like i said before, look at all the racial profiling of minorities in the US that goes on on a daily basis...not that im saying its right, but the bottom line is law enforcement wants to stop the carnage and they need to do what they need to do...whats your idea of how to stop this?

[DemonicOmelette]

"i dont hear about anyone else blowing themselves up along with innocent men, women, and children other than people of Middle Eastern descent, if im wrong, please let me know"

That's the only bit I was really commenting on, pointing out that it's NOT just people of middle eastern descent. Unless Indonesia, Jamaica and Pakistan are now considered Middle Eastern.

I don't know how to go about stopping this. I don't think it's branding an entire portion of the population "potential terrorists", because that just feeds the hatred that's driving these people. There is no short-term solution. We created the mess in the Middle East, and it's going to take a long, long time before any significant changes are going to happen.

[mitchellknell]

fair enough...

[seadzz]

Not exactly sure if "we created the mess in the Middle East DO. I have been looking at the history of that piece of dirt and seems to me people have been killing each other in the name of God for thousands of years. Not much else to do there I guess.

On a slightly related note, they just released pictures on TV of the 4 guys suspected of planting the bombs yesterday.....they fit the usual suspects look. Not wearing suits and ties that's for sure.

sdz

[Mr Whippy]

Seaddz, are you deliberately trying to be offensive or are you just a idiot? How would you like others to call America "a piece of dirt"???

The western world has been far from peaceful, regardless of causes of war we've had far more devastating wars in the last 100 years alone.

I guess you think cities like Babylon were dirt too. ME countries are far from "pieces of dirt" unless of course our planes have bombed them into pieces of dirt into the first place.

[DemonicOmelette]

Seadzz, sure, there's always been people killing eachother in the name of god everywhere on the planet. It's not something confined to the middle east.

But after the 1st world war, the West divided the middle east up into artificial countries, and put in place leaders that would have the west's best interests in mind. WHY are the Kurds part of Northern Iraq, when they have been a completely seperate people for centuries, if not milennia? Because Britain made them all one country. It's the same colonial bollocks that causes so much war and slaughter in Africa. We (the west) seriously cocked up, supported bad dictators when it suited our purposes, and deposed anyone who didn't fit our agenda. We can't be surprised, then, that there are people who resent us.

I'm not justifying in any way the deplorable acts in London (NY, Bali, Madrid, or anywhere else), but I'm just saying we have to look at what drives these young men to do it. They are not stupid. They were professionals, school teachers and such.

[BBD]

WOW! I go to sleep for a bit and look what happens...tsk, tsk, tsk . Now, before you read this, understand I am a tree-huggin' liberal and a gun-totin' redneck who is not anti-war, but anti-injustice (Yeah, my therapist has a field day.... ). And I have no sympathy for anyone who's an actual terrorist, regardless of appearance or nation of origin.

HOWEVER:

First and foremost, ALL governments have committed atrocities in the name of their progress, from the early Etruscans to the US, Brits, Chinese, Italian...no government's history is clean and innocent. However, my grandfather grew up on a *ahem* "reservation" (very ironic word, BTW), so the native question is a bit close to the bone for me. Conservative estimates of the native population of the Americas when Columbus had his brain fart (he was aiming for India) was somewhere around 112 million. Roughly 400 years later, due to the systematic and sustained programs of genocide, the population was estimated at less than 10 million descendants in North, Central, and South America. (I guess them pilgrim bastards really assimilated, didn't they?) Manifest Destiny, indeed....

And to seadzz and c-man, I hope you both understand that, rant aside (though not withdrawn or altered) I respect you both tremendously...well, as far as I can in a virtual environment. That said, by the reasoning you exercise, I should be able to pull over and search anybody I feel fits a profile of a terrorist. Cool. All white guys in their 30's with dark hair and no beard, I'm putting you on notice. Eric Rudolph was nothing short of a terrorist and his political beliefs were engendered in a fundamentalist protestant church. Oh, and scrawny, horse-faced white guys with military training...you, too...in the spirit of Tim McVeigh, who has the distinction of being designated the first home-grown US terrorist (BTW, I would say the 1st US-grown terrorist was likely Andrew "Indian Killer" Jackson, who once promised to rid Florida of the Seminoles...y'know, fer their own good.) However, I may not be able to find the time, as I have dark hair, dark eyes, and olive skin, so I'll be profiling myself a lot.

Once we start rounding up individuals, we can go after the groups that foster the notion that violence for political gain is acceptable: the NRA, the Moral Majority (who continue to insist abortion is murder and those practicing it are murderers to be stopped at all costs), the latest incarnation of the Republican Party (no WMD+no AQ+no OBL+no immediate threat+invade anyway=war crime), many survivalist groups, some environmental groups, as well as dissenters of any shade. My battle cry shall be, "Copulate the masses!" (Careful: there's a double entendre there.)

Once we have the individuals and groups rounded up, we can hold 'em 'til we're satisfied they aren't an actual threat...however long that may be. The only question is: What if you are one caught in that net? Being white and clean-shaven will not save you from scrutiny, should we start going into profiling. And, even though I'm as liberal as it gets, should such powers and responsibilities be passed to me, I will do my job...and few will like it.

Whatever the answer is, profiling is not part of it. These groups have proven very adept at changing their approach and waiting for years before striking. The guys that perpetrated the bombings 2 weeks ago shocked their neighbors, many of whom had watched them grow up. Appearance is a very small part of the equation when we start suspecting somebody might be "up to something." If it were that easy, L'il Prince Georgie woulda never been elected dog catcher, much less POTUS.

One last thing, for the moment. The leaders of the various terrorist organizations would love nothing more than to have younger Arab men become the targets of profiling and social injustice. This will further increase sympathies and recruitment, as they prey upon the disaffected and disenfranchised to do the dirty work. IM-never-HO, l'il Bushie and his minions/puppets further the terrorist's efforts by passing things like the ironically named "Patriot Act."

You can have my civil liberties when you pry them from my cold, dead heart. (Important safety tip: you'd better be a sneakier bastard than I , my l'il huckleberry.)

BBD

[BBD]

Originally Posted by seadzz

Not exactly sure if "we created the mess in the Middle East DO. I have been looking at the history of that piece of dirt and seems to me people have been killing each other in the name of God for thousands of years. Not much else to do there I guess.

"Crusades." Google is your friend. Don't forget to include the white people killing them filthy rag-heads (no offense...just using the vernacular).

[ManchesterUnited4Life]

Originally Posted by mitchellknell

im taking this on the whole, not just what happened recently, but over the years

Originally Posted by mitchellknell

i dont hear about anyone else blowing themselves up along with innocent men, women, and children other than people of Middle Eastern descent

If you're talking about over the years - how 'bout the Basque separatist group? The IRA? Or the various factions in South America? The world extends beyond the Middle East Vs. US/UK/Israel syndrome, mate ...

and and theres no reason to take an attitude with me, im not deliberately saying anything derrogatory,

Jeez, who said anything about attitude!?! My last statement was more of shock than anythin' ... and even if I know you might not be sayin' owt derrogatory deliberately, some of the things you're sayin' can certainly be perceived that way by others (and that's not a plea for an apology, or for you to edit what you've said, 'cause everyone's free to speak their mind) ...

BTW, you keep on askin' how we're meant to stop this? Well my idea is much the same as everyone elses, EXCEPT, that EVERYONE should be searched - and I certainly don't believe this 'lack of manpower' crap - if the public are on your side and have nothing to hide, they'll co-operate, no matter how long things like baggage searches take - sure, you might be pissed off that it takes a little longer to get places, but if it's necessary to ensure public safety, then do it. All that needs to be done in that instance is to inform the public, as was done a couple of weeks back @ Grand Central ...

[mitchellknell]

Originally Posted by ManchesterUnited4Lif e

BTW, you keep on askin' how we're meant to stop this? Well my idea is much the same as everyone elses, EXCEPT, that EVERYONE should be searched - and I certainly don't believe this 'lack of manpower' crap - if the public are on your side and have nothing to hide, they'll co-operate, no matter how long things like baggage searches take - sure, you might be pissed off that it takes a little longer to get places, but if it's necessary to ensure public safety, then do it. All that needs to be done in that instance is to inform the public, as was done a couple of weeks back @ Grand Central ...

ok, point taken...and i agree, i dont think that we should single anyone out...i mean if theres enough manpower to search everyone, or make a truely random search, then i think thats what we should do...i am by no means in public adminstration, law enforcement, transit authority, etc. so im basing my ideas on what my opinions/thoughts of how these segments of society work...btw, the reason im asking for other peoples ideas is cause i hate when people complain about something for the sake of complaining...plenty of people will have opinions or views on certain topics and fight them to the end, but when pressed for a solution they go blank...

[musichound]

First and foremost I want to point out it is not fair to profile any race or religion for being a terrorist because this is not right. Just because someone wears a turbin should not classified as one. I keep mentioning the terrorist bombing in Oklahoma City. Remember Timothy McVee? He is far from muslim. As a matter of fact: He served in the U.S. millitary.

I also want to commend New York City that the police are making sure not to profile anyone also. My brief case was checked this morning on the subway and I am very far from being or looking like a muslim. I strongly feel instead of picking out someone for the way he or she looks, no one should be exempted from searches. Every indivisual in transportation should be checked at the gate.

[ManchesterUnited4Life]

Originally Posted by musichound

He is far from muslim. As a matter of fact: He served in the U.S. millitary.

Wait - so Muslims can't be in the US military? ...

Originally Posted by musichound

Every indivisual in transportation should be checked at the gate.

Bingo. Point of Entry Searches are the easiest way to root it out. If it means going airport-style, then let's do it ...

I dunno about everyone else, but I have to factor in rush hour every day, so I leave earlier than I need to so I can definitely be at work on time - I wouldn't mind in the least if it meant leaving the house 5 minutes earlier to queue to be searched if it meant I could arrive at my destination alive and body intact. I'm sure most others feel that way - in fact, I was just listening to Radio 4 whose reporter was @ LaFayette station in Brooklyn, and he was interviewing someone who said exactly the same thing - if it ensures public safety, then he didn't mind being a little late ...

[BBD]

Originally Posted by musichound

First and foremost I want to point out it is not fair to profile any race or religion for being a terrorist because this is not right. Just because someone wears a turbin should not classified as one. I keep mentioning the terrorist bombing in Oklahoma City. Remember Timothy McVee? He is far from muslim. As a matter of fact: He served in the U.S. millitary.

I also want to commend New York City that the police are making sure not to profile anyone also. My brief case was checked this morning on the subway and I am very far from being or looking like a muslim. I strongly feel instead of picking out someone for the way he or she looks, no one should be exempted from searches. Every indivisual in transportation should be checked at the gate.

I hope you didn't miss the sarcasm in my post. I am against profiling in any form.

BTW, were I brilliant, I woulda written THIS ARTICE. Now, some will see this as a tacit justification for invasion, which would be missing the point entirely.

BBD

[musichound]

Originally Posted by bigbabydaddy1968

I hope you didn't miss the sarcasm in my post. I am against profiling in any form.

BTW, were I brilliant, I woulda written THIS ARTICE. Now, some will see this as a tacit justification for invasion, which would be missing the point entirely.

BBD

No, actually my post wasn't pointed at anyone in particular. This is simply my view of it. Remember, if profiling exists, then other people who do not "fit" the profile are most likely to strike next. This is why I am all for everyone being checked. It would be impartial to everyone this way with no profiling whatsoever.

[mitchellknell]

Originally Posted by ManchesterUnited4Lif e

Bingo. Point of Entry Searches are the easiest way to root it out. If it means going airport-style, then let's do it ...

I dunno about everyone else, but I have to factor in rush hour every day, so I leave earlier than I need to so I can definitely be at work on time - I wouldn't mind in the least if it meant leaving the house 5 minutes earlier to queue to be searched if it meant I could arrive at my destination alive and body intact. I'm sure most others feel that way - in fact, I was just listening to Radio 4 whose reporter was @ LaFayette station in Brooklyn, and he was interviewing someone who said exactly the same thing - if it ensures public safety, then he didn't mind being a little late ...

i saw on CNN this morning a reporter was taking an informal poll in a Manhattan subway station and said that about 75% said they would submit to random bag searches about 15% said they would not and 10% were too busy to talk to him...