Is the Ennis Project a good idea (a user poll)

[seadzz]

Fellow members.

In a effort to graphicly show our feelings about the subject would you please post your feelings about a non-iRiver group working to improve the firmware of ihp 1xx products?

to vote please click on the link below this post with the same title as the subject line

many thanks

sdz

[coreman]

I don't hold any false hopes about the outcome but if it actually happens and works, TERRIFIC!

I think we should give them all the encouragement we can....if it dies for whatever reasons, nothing lost but if it achieves anything close to what Rockbox achieved, we will all be very, very, happy.

[seadzz]

you sir are as always 100% correct.

sdz

[Odie]

I went with the slightly less optimistic choice of "yes" in case anyone's wondering.

I made my concerns known in the other thread. But I do agree that it can only be a good thing if something comes of this project.

- Odie

[divad6719]

I voted no, and I openly admit it. Here's my reasons,
(Before seadzz chimes in these are my views and not those of the forum.)

I hate to be the voice of dissent but to hell with it, here goes.

1. The wording, had the poll been "Is Third Party Firmware a Good Idea" I would have vote "Hell Yes". I'm in no way against this idea and think it could only benefit users, as long as it is done in a proper professional manner.

2. These guys, to my mind, have proven to be irresponsible up until now. They have already admitted recieving a threat of legal action, but not only do they continue to advertise their continuance of the project they also drag others into it as well.
Not only in their choice to use this forum but also, if you read the other post, they have admitted to being in contact with a well respected and established firmware developer and mention in the same paragraph questionable, possibly illegal, documents and suggestions. (trust and professionalism ??)
This is done with utter abandon and lack of discretion, on a forum that for all we know, is being monitored by iRiver themselves.

3. Obviously somebody thinks these people are doing something wrong or they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of sending out a threat letter. Is this something we want to get involved in ? We have got to ask ourselves as a forum, how far can our support go before it crosses the line ?.
iRiver, rightly or wrongly, don't support third party firmwares it's as simple as that. Hopefully one day they will.

4. My god, we've just sent out an invitation to iRiver for a representative to come and join us. Does anybody think this will go down well or further our own cause ?.

Thats it guys I am sorry that some of you think worse of me for being a bit harsh with that poster this morning, I hope this goes some way to explain my strong feelings about this a little. Like I said earlier, I don't want this forum to get a bad name for ANY reason.

Cheers

[Odie]

divad, that's basically my concern as well as far as them using this forum under the circumstances.

Especially since it seems that iRiver are monitoring these forums.

- Odie

[Zeni]

I think this is a great idea, however I echo divad's sentiments about this possibly not being the best way to gain any favour from iRiver themselves, so really it may end up being better if the project gets its own forum, though I'd definitely not want that to happen without at least giving us some sort of link to where it may be.

All in all though if it's enough to prod the iRiver devs to get some bugs fixed then it'll definitely have accomplished enough to satisfy me.

In any case, I love the idea, and I sincerely hope that this isn't just someone blowing smoke up our butts.

[jeff]

Gents, Tridion was invited to use this forum by yours truly. If he(they) continue to work on the reverse engineering bit and are slapped with a lawsuit then so be it. This forum thrives on creativity, ideas, research, etc. just like you all give each and every day. If iRiver is truly monitoring then that's even better. Do most of us support 3rd party firmware? Maybe. I for one hope that this sparks something bigger so let's hang on for the ride and enjoy!!

[coreman]

Originally Posted by jeff

Gents, Tridion was invited to use this forum by yours truly. If he(they) continue to work on the reverse engineering bit and are slapped with a lawsuit then so be it. This forum thrives on creativity, ideas, research, etc. just like you all give each and every day. If iRiver is truly monitoring then that's even better. Do most of us support 3rd party firmware? Maybe. I for one hope that this sparks something bigger so let's hang on for the ride and enjoy!!

Here! Here! Personally iRiver hasn't shown ANY inclination to participate in any forums or even discourage the negative posts by taking a visible action such as a addressing the issues with a post of their own.

Certainly enough of us have sent emails, suggestions, etc but what do we get back? "Shuffle problem, we don't got no stinking shuffle problem" (said like "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges").

So to iRiver, make ONE legitimate attempt to address our issues, be it a schedule of the next firmware or a reason why the current firmware can't be fixed, post it here or at IF and I PROMISE to shut up...it is that simple.

Until then, GOOD LUCK TO ENNIS PROJECT!!!! VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!

[Tang]

Hi all,
First good year for all as a noobs in this board...
Iv'e just voted "Hell Yes" cause i'm very impressed by the RockBox power... For having tested an Archos Jukebox Multimedia 20 which firmware is very bad and hadn't evolved in one year coding (only bugfixes and new bugs added...) i could confirm an alternative projetc is a very good solution specially since iRiver seems to sleep (remeber that iMPusers are still waiting for a decent upgrade after two tiny gadgdt upgrades...)

Best regards,
And special ones for "coolest" SweetSpot

Tanguy

[Adam]

I joined this board just to vote here. Hell yes indeed.

I figure, even if this turns out to be a hoax, at least something might come of it, even inspiration?

Also, on the note of just joining, I have previously had an iPod, and sold it to get an iHP-120.

[coreman]

This survey is starting to look like the famous "fickle finger of fate"... better than just "the finger" like our last one...

[SickTwist]

Originally Posted by jeff

Gents, Tridion was invited to use this forum by yours truly. If he(they) continue to work on the reverse engineering bit and are slapped with a lawsuit then so be it. This forum thrives on creativity, ideas, research, etc. just like you all give each and every day. If iRiver is truly monitoring then that's even better. Do most of us support 3rd party firmware? Maybe. I for one hope that this sparks something bigger so let's hang on for the ride and enjoy!!

Very well said Jeff! Glad to hear we have such a forward thinking leader at the helm.

[seadzz]

Based on my experience with litigation vith respect to electronic products there is nothing illegal with reverse engineering. It gets people in trouble when they infringe on someones patentable or patented work and try to sell this work for profit.

The reverse engineering in and of its self is not illegal. It is a matter of SOP for a manufacturer to benchmark competitors products ie. taking them apart and studuing how they are made and how they work. This is done by every manufacture on the planet iRiver included.

The group in question is free to explore the inner workings of iRiver products and modify or layer a plugin onto the iRiver firmware. There is not a court on earth that would hold them guilty of anything.

They can not sell their work if the iRiver firmware is modified and rebranded. That is not allowed unless iRiver agrees prior to the release for sale of this new firmware. A plugin is beyond iRiver's control and there is buttkiss iRiver can do about a plugin.

Been down this road many times before.

Warranty issues are another issue that this post is not intended to address.

sdz

[ceebmoj]

is ther a web sight for this project

Blake

[Odie]

Originally Posted by ceebmoj

is ther a web sight for this project

Not at the moment (to my knowledge)

- Odie

[timmer]

Before today I would possibly have voted yes to this but now IRiver seem t have fixed some of the more serious bugs in this player I have to vote no.

An official firmware is a far better bet than some third party one unless the third party one includes some significant extra features/bug fixes.

I for one have no interest in this project now that the firmware seems to have made it to a reasonable (if not perfect) level.

[Tang]

Originally Posted by timmer

Before today I would possibly have voted yes to this but now IRiver seem t have fixed some of the more serious bugs in this player I have to vote no.

An official firmware is a far better bet than some third party one unless the third party one includes some significant extra features/bug fixes.

I for one have no interest in this project now that the firmware seems to have made it to a reasonable (if not perfect) level.

Not agree at all...
Open source fw are very much powerfull than constructor one... Of course at the beginning stability would be an issue but i think rockbox si now quite stable...
And no comparison with Archos fw about features...
Just watch this comparative feature list...
Impressive isn't it????

Also take in consideration an OS project will assume a very longer support than iRiver one...

Bye...

[coreman]

Agree with Tang....we need the Ennis project even more now. After nearly (2) months, we got nothing other than the original "bonus" features, a partially fixed shuffle and resume action.

Not likely to see much development on the 100/120/140 players now that they are releasing the -300...the firmware is different for LCD remotes vs non-LCD remotes and it looks like the -300 is going to be LCDless.

Hope Tridion hooks up with Rockbox, those guys have a lot of experience in this....

[Tang]

Originally Posted by coreman

Agree with Tang....we need the Ennis project even more now. After nearly (2) months, we got nothing other than the original "bonus" features, a partially fixed shuffle and resume action.

Not likely to see much development on the 100/120/140 players now that they are releasing the -300...the firmware is different for LCD remotes vs non-LCD remotes and it looks like the -300 is going to be LCDless.

Hope Tridion hooks up with Rockbox, those guys have a lot of experience in this....

Hi Coreman,
Not sure the iHP30 will only be sold with NO LCD remote...
Indeed the remote prort seems very closer than iHP1xx one...
In addition the iMP1100 has the same remote port and I've seen a shot of this iMP with the iMP550/iHP1xx LCD remote...
I really think iriver will sell 2 version of iHP3xx: iHP300D without LCD on remote and the stadard one...
Since the customer would have the choice before buying it will forbid negative feedback about "ticking matetr" on the iriver or other boards...

Of course I' am not in the iRiver secret but I will bet quite a lot for my hypothesis...

Maybe a mail to iRiver could answer without doubt... I'll send one this evening if I've the time...

Bye...