T50 Larger Capacities - any news?

[shiryu22]

Hello everyone - first time poster, long time lurker.

So yeah, I've been anticipating the larger-cap T50s. I read that the chip's outdated, but are there any plans for making larger ones? I've loved iRiver since my iFP-190, and I'd love to get a T50 (granted they have AT LEAST a 2 GB one).

[LordMattman]

T60 are 4gb, if that helps.

[ShyAnne]

All indications are that T50 will not come in any capacity larger than 1GB. T60 has the same size color screen but a lighter and smaller form factor and comes in 1GB as well as 2GB or 4GB capacities.

But you pay dearly in battery life. T60 is rated 19 hours on its AAA while T50 rates an incredible 52 hours on its AA. At least iriver learned from their mistake with the T30 and included the FM tuner/recorder in the AAA T60. (Only Asian T30s had FM.)

No official indications of any plans to make T50 more than 1GB, only rumors and speculation on various DAP message boards. I wonder how many of those rumors started as a result of the pre-release review still posted at CNET's Crave site, which not surprisingly was completely wrong.

They claimed T50 and T60 would both come in 1GB, 2GB and 4GB, and further claimed a 20 hour rated battery life for both models. For anyone who's curious, here's the link to their (completely wrong) review:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9675843-1.html

Better to get info here at MisticRiver or at Jenn Lee's Pocketables site rather than CNET, Crave, or other DAP message forums.

By the way, can you provide a link to exactly where you "read that the chip's outdated" on T50?

[shiryu22]

Wow, you guys replied really quickly! Sorry I took so long - I'm not so used to fast replies. I appreciate you guys letting me in on stuff. I've been aware of the T60, but I was confused, then appalled (in that order) that iRiver would make a AAA mp3 player. I just didn't understand why. I know now (thanks to these forums) that making a AAA player is apparently much cheaper, so...

But yeah, I'm quite stubborn on getting a AAA mp3 player, and much less an iRiver AAA. I've had the iFP-190T, iFP-195T, and the iFP-799 (wonderful), and was ecstatic to a new iRiver that, lo and behold, returned to the nostalgic iFP-1xx look. That's why I've been hoping to see a larger T50.

It seems like iRiver's sorta bending to meet what they think the general public wants, but at the same time, they're alienating their longtime users.

And, I found that information on forums here.
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[ShyAnne]

LOL on fast replies ... the MisticRiver forums are very active.

On AAA iriver players, T30 was actually their first and T60 is only the latest. Probably demand, on flash players everyone wants 'smaller and lighter' ever since Apple's Shuffle. Certainly understandable why you would prefer a AA player though, considering the vast difference in battery life.

I don't think iriver is completely alienating long-time users. At least they are still making new players with disposable batteries, most other manufacturers have gone to built-in rechargeables exclusively. (Again, blame Apple for setting that standard.)

For small capacity flash players I personally prefer standard AA or AAA batteries over built-in, for three reasons:

1.) I travel frequently and need to be able to easily replace a battery when I can't connect to a PC or electrical outlet for recharges.
2.) Don't like being restricted from using a device because it needs yet another recharge! Already have to recharge a cell and PDA and don't want yet another small device with periodic use limitations due to needing recharges at inconvenient times.
3.) Unlike some hard drive players, there are no user-replaceable batteries for smaller flash players that have sealed-in rechargeables. Instead the entire device becomes disposable. Not very ecological or economical!

As far as 'alienating long-time users', that is true on the recording options for which iriver was famous, those disappeared starting with the T-series. Recording is still there ... but no more user-selectable automatic gain control and no more ability to use an external mic without a preamp. Also line-in recording was split between models, T30 had it but not T10. With the newest T50 and T60, line-in recording is gone altogether!

But on T50 and T60 iriver went backwards with design by bringing back the joystick and latched battery door. T10's click wheel is much sturdier and less likely to break than any tiny protruding joystick. T10's battery door is nearly impossible to break. T30's battery door was less sturdy but still no protruding external latch to break.

Thanks for the links on where you found the 'outdated chip' info on T50. It is only one poster's speculation though, seemingly based on a possible file number limitation. I thought perhaps you had found definitive info from a site that may have taken apart a T50 and knew for sure what chip was used.

IN the meantime, if you want a T-series player that runs on AA and has at least 2GB then you might try to get hold of a T10 2GB. Discontinued so they are difficult to find, but not impossible. The chip on T10 does have a file limitation, but it's generous at 700 files and 700 folders. I'm not sure why anyone would want more than that on 2GB as quality suffers when people try to make files as small as possible just to cram more songs on the device.

(And yes, ... .ogg does sound better than .mp3 even at lower bit rates. But higher quality .ogg still sounds better than lower quality .ogg ... so why go for lower quality just to cram more songs on 2 measly GBs?)

[shiryu22]

After the iFP series, I sort of lost track (and interest, because the iFP-799 fit my needs nicely). I'm sort of considering biting the bullet and grabbing the T60, but I'll wait til probably January - the absolute latest. My 799's still serving my needs very well, but it'd be nice to have a larger capacity.

Hm, you're right. I'm very glad they still make flash players with disposable batteries. I've been a longtime supporter of disposable batteries - for QUITE a few years. Your reasons for preferring disposables over built in are pretty much the reasons why I try to use them exclusively.

Ironically, I never made much use of the recording options, but thankfully, I have the 799 if I ever wanted to.

I actually like the joystick (if it's anything like the 7xx series or 1xx series, at least). However, I didn't like the battery cover on the 1xx series at all - I had two of them, and they both are broken because the battery cover came completely off. I lost the battery cover for my 799 (some idiot stole it in gym with the battery, but left the mp3 player? ..ok, nice going), and it's been going strong since then with no issues.

On the topic of the T10, I've been watching them on eBay and the prices have been cliiiiimbing. I could've got a 2GB one for $90.00 a few weeks ago - not the case anymore :\.

One issue I feel I may have with the newer models is the UI. I've been reading reviews everywhere that say the UI is more .. "user friendly." Which is, in my mind, basically a nicer way of saying "dumbed down" and "weak(er)". Can any oldschool iFP owners vouch for this on the new models?

Does anyone know why iRiver makes so many different models? Eg, when the iFPs 6xx and 7xx came out. Only differences I saw were in battery life (negligible - eg, 1-2 hours difference) and design. Both had similar capacities and abilities (eg, Line-in). I'm just wondering if anyone knows exactly why iRiver does this - to cater to more customers' tastes, to reach different markets, etc.

[ShyAnne]

Originally Posted by shiryu22

One issue I feel I may have with the newer models is the UI. I've been reading reviews everywhere that say the UI is more .. "user friendly." Which is, in my mind, basically a nicer way of saying "dumbed down" and "weak(er)".

I don't know about that. I have a T30 which has a monochrome UI that's similar to the ones on the older IFPs. The T10, T50 and T60 all have color screens that are easier on the eyes and look better. Also considering T10's 45 hour battery rating and T50's 52 hour, it does seem that iriver managed to implement a color screen that doesn't adversely affect battery life. T60's rated battery life is 19 hours, but that's due to its AAA as opposed to AA battery rather than the color screen. 19 hours is pretty good for a AAA player, other manufacturer's AAA players are not rated as high and that's without any color screen.

I wouldn't call it 'dumbed-down' or 'weak' though. There's still plenty of changeable options ... again the only things missing are AGC and external mic options. T50's screen looks exactly like T10's. T60's is a little bit different as the background lines on individual screens aren't there, instead it's a solid colored background.

I think I may have seen some of the reviews you mention though. Some people seem dead-set against ANY color screens. The usual objection is that they eat battery life, but as said previously that's not the case with the irivers. Maybe some people are just 'nostalgic' for monochrome screens? If so they could have gone with T30, which does have the old-style monochrome.

Another nice thing about the color screens is you can change themes if you are so inclined. Search the T-series board on "themes" and you'll see what some posters here have created. Two in particular, a Thief theme and a Japanese anime theme look really great, both created by regular posters here.

[fcormier]

Originally Posted by ShyAnne

I don't know about that. I have a T30 which has a monochrome UI that's similar to the ones on the older IFPs. The T10, T50 and T60 all have color screens that are easier on the eyes and look better. Also considering T10's 45 hour battery rating and T50's 52 hour, it does seem that iriver managed to implement a color screen that doesn't adversely affect battery life. T60's rated battery life is 19 hours, but that's due to its AAA as opposed to AA battery rather than the color screen. 19 hours is pretty good for a AAA player, other manufacturer's AAA players are not rated as high and that's without any color screen.

I'm no expert, but from what I've read, the T50 and T60 LCD is a dual scan passive matrix (DSTN), as opposed to modern active matrix (TFT). I suspect passive to be less power hungry than active, but I don't know enough on the subject matter.

[shiryu22]

Thanks to fcormier and ShyAnne for shedding light on some questions.

I decided to (kinda) bite the bullet and was able to nab a 2GB T10 for about $112.00 US with shipping. I'm looking forward to messing with it!

However, I'm still quite keen on any knowledge anyone has to offer on the future T50, so if there are any updates, postpostpost.

[ShyAnne]

Shiryu22, that's a pretty good price for a 2GB T10 considering that prices have been climbing since that model was discontinued.

Hope you enjoy it! I really like mine a lot. Tough player, the all-black styling is nice looking, and I really like the color screen better than my 1GB T30. It's better looking and easier on eyes.

The different color screens for different modes (Music, FM, Record, Settings, Browser) make selections easier with just a quick glance rather than T30's monochrome screen which I find requires closer watching to make sure the right screen is selected. Of course, also prefer the double capacity over the T10 1GB, which I had for awhile before the 2GB came out.

[shiryu22]

Indeed, I was glad I got it for the price I did.

Thanks - I do like it, but I have some gripes with it because I'm just so in love with my 799. People find this strange about me, but I almost NEVER look at the screen of my music player. I've always been this way, since my old CD players to my iRock! mp3 player, and my iPods. As such, I've always wanted an option to turn off the screen or backlight to save battery. Though I don't often use the screen, I like to have the option to do so when I wanted. When I happened across the iRivers that I came to own, I was happy to see that they had long battery life and had options to keep the backlights off. Unfortunately, with the T10, there is NO way for me to keep it off. Now, granted, it seems like the T10 has a great battery life period, but I'd like the option to keep it off if I so wished.

I'm still trying to get used to the four way pad - I guess I'm one of the few who prefers the joystick.

Another HUGE gripe I have is that they've done away with the "fast forward" option - you can no longer "fast forward" 10 songs at a time, or through directories. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the feature, but it works like this - a song is playing, and you press forward (or backward). The song changes - now, if you press and hold forward(or backward) again within the next two seconds or so, it'll either jump 10 songs ahead, or change the directory. I absolutely LOVED this feature, especially when I had a bunch of songs.

Other minor gripes I have are that you have to press a button once to let the T10 know you're going to do something, THEN press your desired button. I prefer it to just .. do it. I also wish they would let you choose for the player to beep upon each action. Again, this is because I'm usually not looking at the screen.

::sigh:: Though I don't regret my purchase, my absolute heaven would be a 4 GB 7xx - the F700 model. But at about $300.00, I'm just fine with this for now.

Which also made me realize - there is nothing better for me than the iRiver 7xx series for me at the moment. To me, it serves my purposes better than any mp3 player on the market - including iPods and other iRivers.

[ShyAnne]

Originally Posted by shiryu22

I almost NEVER look at the screen of my music player.

I do that with my T30 as it's usually used for sports and hikes so I just turn it on and let it play out. The only time I look at the screen is if using it for line-in recording.

T10 is used for everything else, such as flights, at the gym (for FM), walking the dogs, etc. Particularly while flying I have tendency to do everything "wrong" with the T10 as far as "battery saving" ... always flipping through the browser and playing with different options. Yet even with all that, I rarely need to change the battery.

I recently went on a long flight, was gone for a month and used the T10 fairly frequently while at destination, then another long flight back - all on one battery. So if your sole reason for wanting a backlight-off option is as you say "to save battery" then you really have little or nothing to worry about with T10.

Originally Posted by shiryu22

I'm still trying to get used to the four way pad - I guess I'm one of the few who prefers the joystick.

You're not the only one. Have heard those with large hands or large fingers do prefer joysticks, if that applies perhaps it's a contributing factor. I have small hands with thin fingers so it's never been a problem. I actually prefer the five-way pad as there's never a danger of it breaking by getting caught on a pocket edge, and no joystick to break off if the player is dropped. (When joystick players are dropped one has to hope to get lucky and not have it land causing impact to the side of the joystick. If it does fall that way it's very likely to stop working or even snap right off.)

On the other issues, that alternate "fast forward" sounds interesting, especially for changing directories without needing to use the browser. That could be implemented with a firmware change. Since they are still releasing new firmware versions for T10 that's a suggestion you may want to email to iriver, to include in the next T10 firmware version.

You do have to "wake up" T10 if the screen is black and then press the same button again for the change to effect. That bugged me at first too, but so used to it now. When operating the player without looking, I just automatically "double click" without even thinking about it.

As to a "beep" option, you're probably the first person I have read who actually likes that. Most find it annoying to some degree. I personally cannot stand alert beeps on audio electronic devices! Any owned were immediately "de-beeped", and I have actually returned electronics that had no option to turn alert beeps permanently off.

Yeah there was the F700 which was basically a 4GB iFP-799, but it got very limited release. I believe it was another Asia-only product. Also as you mentioned it was quite expensive, especially for a small capacity music-only player. Far more expensive than their new flagship product Clix2 -- which has video, games, photo viewing and album art in addition to music, FM, and recording options.

[arrigogogo]

I agree with shiryu22. I have an iFP-390 (256M) too and I like the sound quality, the joystick, the skip-directory function and the "beep" when I press a button. But I prefer the mono screen more because I can hardly see the color screen of my T10 under the sun. The only things I like T10 are 2G capacity, the clock, and the buckle. So, the iFP-700 is my dream player.