T10, MTP and Windows Media Player holy Crap

[gon0s]

Just wanted to say that this piece of hardware could be very cool if it was only possible to get rid of this stupid MTP firmware and the possibility to use something less annoying and stupid than Microsoft Windows Media Player 10.



I own an ifp390 and I like it very much. The T10 is really a good toy.
Nice autonomy, good sound, well built but OMG why put this software and MTP only firmware ?

Sorry, but I use everything but Windows, and this product only run well under Windows XP and the evil WMP10.

Can anyone explain why the owner of this product MUST use Microsoft Windows and why he must use the Microsoft Windows Media Player ?

Sorry, but I do not want to be hijacked by CIA and Microsoft zombies...

This big corporation is already forcing people who buy a new PC to buy a licence of Microsoft Windows, now if you buy a mp3 player, you HAVE to buy/own Microsoft AND must USE Microsoft Windows Media Player !!! [Moderation: profanity is prohibited at Mistic River.]

Sorry, but iRiver and all manufacturer of Play For Sure products are only member of M$ nazis' army !

[h4n9m4n]

you could use windows explorer.

if you have linux you can use gPhoto.

nothing for mac, though.

[gon0s]

Yeah, I know all theses workaround.

But hey, MTP and Play For Sure are several step back in interoperabilty.

I do not want to use workaround with T10. I want to use it as it has to be used : like my old ifp390 and get rid of this software (WMP) !

First, MP3 players needed proprietary software to use them (each manufacturer had his own software.
Then, they decided to be UMS, a standard and useable on any platform (Mac, Linux, Windows, whatever you want)

But now, you MUST use nothing else than Microsoft crap software. It is amazing, isn'it ?

iRiver is in the wrong path. They MUST give to their customers the ability to use their product whatever they use (Mac, Linux, Windows 98/2000, XP).

[h4n9m4n]

yep, mtp is a pain when you want to fix a file you forgot to tag or renamed incorrectly. you have to delete it, then edit it, then put it back on. so stupid.

[Codefox]

MTP is required for being able to use subscription music I believe though and many of us did get it for this feature. (WMP10 is only required to be installed to use the T10...you can transfer music however you like. I use Yahoo & drag'n'drop the files myself. WMP10 isn't neccessary beyond the DRM it has.)

[ad2435]

perhaps you should have done a little more research before your purchase.

[Codefox]

Originally Posted by ad2435

perhaps you should have done a little more research before your purchase.

The funny thing is he thinks he sounds like he's a superior computer user because he doesn't like Windows...yet he didn't seem to research his purchase very well and is completely unaware that WMP10 is hardly the only way to get files onto the T10.

[gon0s]

Originally Posted by Codefox

The funny thing is he thinks he sounds like he's a superior computer user because he doesn't like Windows...yet he didn't seem to research his purchase very well and is completely unaware that WMP10 is hardly the only way to get files onto the T10.

Ha, as I don't like the Holy Microsoft Compagny, I am stupid, that's your point, isn'it ?
FYI, older iRiver products were able to be converted to UMS (slower but working). Older products were not limited to Holy Windows XP SP1/2 nor WMP10. Other products are DRM aware but are UMS. MTP is an open protocol. So what is the point to lock people with WMP10 (and of course Windows) ?

The day I bought the T10, I did not pay enough attention to the point MTP version cannot be changed to UMS because older iRiver products were not so limited.
The day I used the T10, there is almost nothing else than this crappy software WMP that is able to create subfolder in the T10. What is iRiver doing ? Why did not give people the possibility to use at least iRiver software ?

[gon0s]

Originally Posted by h4n9m4n

yep, mtp is a pain when you want to fix a file you forgot to tag or renamed incorrectly. you have to delete it, then edit it, then put it back on. so stupid.

So, why on hell lock people with MTP ? It is several step back in usability...

[ad2435]

well, i don't use windows media player with my t30 mtp device.

in fact, i never used windows media player with my t30 mtp device.

in fact, i would recommend that you do not use windows media player with your iriver mtp device.

[Codefox]

Originally Posted by gon0s

Ha, as I don't like the Holy Microsoft Compagny, I am stupid, that's your point, isn'it ?
FYI, older iRiver products were able to be converted to UMS (slower but working). Older products were not limited to Holy Windows XP SP1/2 nor WMP10. Other products are DRM aware but are UMS. MTP is an open protocol. So what is the point to lock people with WMP10 (and of course Windows) ?

The day I bought the T10, I did not pay enough attention to the point MTP version cannot be changed to UMS because older iRiver products were not so limited.
The day I used the T10, there is almost nothing else than this crappy software WMP that is able to create subfolder in the T10. What is iRiver doing ? Why did not give people the possibility to use at least iRiver software ?

Not at all..using or not using Windows isn't a sign of intelligence either way. Simply a preference. But you're complaining about a purchase you made that, with a small amount of research, you would have known what it required. Coming here and bitching and moaning afterwards about how stupid Windows and iRiver are becuase YOU forgot to read the box is just absurd.

And like I stated before...WMP is hardly the only thing you can use with an MTP T10. You can use WMP, Yahoo! Music Engine, Music Match, Napster, and whatever software Real has. Or you can use Windows Explorer. The only purpose of having WMP on your computer is that in order to use DRM'ed music, it has to be there.

[Earendil]

I have to comment on some of the replies I've seen here.

The first time I plugged in the device, it popped up on the screen as "take no action or sync", I chose sync...And then the thing disappeares from the taskbar, and doesn't show up in My Computer.

So after WMP10 fails to deliver effective content managing (subfolders), I'm wondering how I can access the thing via Explorer to do good ol' drag and drop.

So I unplug, then plug it back in, and select "Take no Action" and it now shows up in Explorer. However, there's no Music folder. I'll go ahead and create one.

Right click, WAIT A MINUTE, there's no Create Folder option! So, by all the indications, WMP10 is the only way I'm going to get this thing stuffed. There's no hint that using Explorer is possible cuz darnit, I can't create a folder hierarchy.

I TRIED to go the way iRiver wanted me. I didn't freak out when I saw the little text "Must have music in Windows Media, if it's not see the Help", even when that blatantly reads "we're in bed with WMP, while it's not the ONLY player in existence, we want you to use it".

I'm not a "holier than thou Linux" user, I play in Windows all day, but the amount of bending over backwards that has to be done in order to put music in a folder that's under a folder is unreal.

I just spent 5 hours trying to figure out why WMP10 had a "Create Folder" /subfolder button, but would NOT synch music into the folder I had created.

iRiver said, "Read the manual!", WMP said "erk, VOMIT". Twice on that one.

So this "well there's more than one way to put stuff on it DUH" bit just irks me. By all accounts I was being told by iRiver/WMP, that I had 3 options

1) Rebuild my entire playlist/library in WMP then selectively dump playlists into the iRiver.
2) Create over 50+ folders for every IDvTag variants of every artist/album and have 3 songs in each.
3) Create one long list of 350+ songs to scroll through.

Forget MTP, I don't care, but it's passing the buck when you start pointing fingers at the consumer. A lot of people are receiving these as gifts this season, does iRiver want them returned so they can "research" a better product?

It wasn't until I found this thread that I realized that I had to create a new folder in WMP10, THEN use good ol' explorer to drag and drop files into the folder.

Thank you whoever posted that. No thanks to the bad stuff.

Nobody should have to go through that.

Nobody.

[Codefox]

That's not the only way to do it. All you need to do is create the folder on your desktop and drag the whole folder into your T10 in explorer. WMP simply isn't needed.

The T10 was specifically designed to work as a "PlaysForSure" device. It's not like a HDD player which people with large CD libraries are going to lean towards. These players are really designed to work very well with the new WMP DRM so that people can use the music stores like Napster & Yahoo to fill their devices.

He was the one who came in here belligerantly ranting about CIA Nazis (HUH?) and not wanting to sell out to TEH MAN. Give me a break...it's not that hard to put a folder onto the T-series. If you know you're going to put 10 folders on there just make 10 on your desktop and drag them all over at the same time. It won't take but an extra second.

[Febs]

Moderation: gon0s, profanity is prohibited at Mistic River. Please keep your posts clean.

[DtLr2610]

you don't have to use windows media player, its just basically drag and drop for the T30, so im guessing its the same thing for the T10. i was pretty mad when i saw the whole WMP, but then i just decided to try drag and drop, deleted eMusic, kept Music, RECORD, VOICE and it works completely fine without WMP. if you don't know how to do it here are some brief instructions.
My Computer-->T30(right click and click explore)--> delete folder eMusic--> open folder Music--> drag and drop
fairly simple

[Earendil]

Originally Posted by DtLr2610

you don't have to use windows media player, its just basically drag and drop for the T30, so im guessing its the same thing for the T10. i was pretty mad when i saw the whole WMP, but then i just decided to try drag and drop, deleted eMusic, kept Music, RECORD, VOICE and it works completely fine without WMP. if you don't know how to do it here are some brief instructions.
My Computer-->T30(right click and click explore)--> delete folder eMusic--> open folder Music--> drag and drop
fairly simple

Yes, but when you try and create a folder via explorer and it doesn't allow for it, that basically sends a big message saying "You're not getting around this use our bloody software". Drag and drop never entered the thought processes because I needed to create folders before I dragged and dropped.

Didn't think of dragging dropping folders...SORRY Still a little much for a person to deal with.

I didn't see gon0s reply before it was deleted was it in response to me or somebody elses post?

[ad2435]

i don't know what the big deal is wrt creating a folder/s on the mtp device directly.

the way i do it, is that i create everything on my desktop (ie the folders, the structure of the folders, folders for each playlist, album, whatever) and then upload at once.

"to me" this is much faster. it is faster to populate my file/folder structure on the desktop and then drag and drop everything at once onto the mtp device (not using wmp). it takes about 4 minutes total to upload a gig to my device.

also, i don't know about the t10 but with the t30, having this thing connected via usb, i have noticed that the unit is not usb powered and being connected to usb eats my battery. i mean eats up the juice big time. so it also works out that uploading once saves on batt life. i have eaten a new battery in just a few hours of usb testing.

i've had my ums h340 for over a year and the mtp t30 for a few days. i have never used wmp on either device and the differences really aren't that great regarding getting music on the mtp device. i see more issues with the t30 itself. the transfer is not a big deal to me fwiw.

[Earendil]

Originally Posted by ad2435

i don't know what the big deal is wrt creating a folder/s on the mtp device directly.

The fact that you can't.

You can only create the folder outside of the device, then drag and drop in, thus "creating" them.


Nice info on batt life.

[it0]

The stupid thing is the mtp protocol is a subset of the ptp protocol which some digital camera's used, within that protocol it's perfectly normal to create a dir, you can do this undr linux as well. So it's windows that does not give you that feature in explorer.

[Ted Yo!]

#1 It's a superset not a subset.
#2 Explorer isn't limiting you, the shell extension is. The shell extension is an app just like any other (WMP, MMJB ect.) it just has fewer features (read: It sucks more.)

PS:
reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Micros oft\Windows\CurrentV ersion\Explorer\Auto playHandlers\EventHa ndlers\MTPMediaPlaye rArrival /v MSSHAudioDevHandler /t REG_SZ /f

Be careful of spaces. Formatting of long strings usually gets broken up on the boards.

[Ramsaye]

Microsoft and iRiver are collaborating, this is not a secret look at how the H10 intergrates with the Xbox 360. Microsoft is also pushing WMP as a universal media centre to manage all of your media content, be it on a PC, phone or PDA.
Most people have WMP on their PC so for a company releasing products into the market that do not want to tie people into their proprietary software (eg iTunes) it makes sense to develop a product that intergrates with WMP.


There are some of us out there that try to avoid too much reliance on Microsoft, personally this is not because I think they are rubbish or that I hate Bill Gates, but because smaller vendors innovate more.

I do not want too many media players on my PC, I use winamp but I also have WMP and Realplayer kicking around, some websites need them and they are fairly universal. I think iRiver realise this and that is why they have chosen to push users down the WMP route.

That said, as all of my music has been copied from CD, I do not need to worry about DRM so I can happily drag and drop. Given the choice I will always buy hard copy music that I can rip and burn to whatever device I like.