H Series Live Recording Guide v1.0

[daven]

i think i follow most of that

In the iriver fw the only difference between line and mic is that the gain is set low for line and high for mic

i have read that with digital recording line in with an external pre-amp usually has less distortion than mic in. would this be the case then on the iriver?

[Sinamit]

Originally Posted by framesaver

MICROPHONES & POWER

Good job !
In fact one have to take care with the impedance of the external microphone. With a reference like Sony ECM-MS907, its impedance of 1000 ohms, perfectly adapted for MD, implicates a very low sound recording even with a gain of 20 ! Post-amplification with someting like Audacity is also amplifying the background noise.

[b0br]

Originally Posted by Sinamit

Good job !
In fact one have to take care with the impedance of the external microphone. With a reference like Sony ECM-MS907, its impedance of 1000 ohms, perfectly adapted for MD, implicates a very low sound recording even with a gain of 20 ! Post-amplification with someting like Audacity is also amplifying the background noise.

I tried recording using my friend's H340 with ECM-MS907, gain 8-11, and the volume of recording was the same as with minidisc.

I record percussions and must say, that ECM-MS907 is probably the best choice.

EDIT: No it is not (found out later).


We used it two months in West Africa and the sound is semi-professional..
But it's still quite expensive

Anybody has experience with percussions recordings and different mics?

[pheel]

first I want join in thanking you for you great posting!

I have one question: when I use the external mic , does the settings for AGC when it is set to "on" automatically "bypass" the setting for the ext. mic volume? I made a recording the other day, and I thought I had it set to AGC "on" - but still I got an overload of gain...

(I am using the sony stereo mic ECM-MS907)

[Sinamit]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to encounter troubles while recording with a H300 and a Sony ECM-MS907... The policy of Sony is to have its own standarts to prevent users to choose an other brand !
It's a kind of troll, but Iriver is doing the same by providing so little specifications of its products !!

Some of ours are satisfied by the couple, I'm really surprised. In all what I've tried, if the source is very close to the mic, it "works" because the sound wave power is very high. It's maybe the case for percussions that usually saturate recorders. As soon as the source is a bit further from the mic, the sound level is flatten and reaches the level of the digital noise.

Too bad, the ECM-MS907 is an excellent external microphone. By the way, I did not try to change the AGC option because in my mind, being for the internal microphone, it has nothing to do with ext. mic. recording.

I have no clue to make it works as it works with MD (you shoot a plane in the sky and you're flying with it!!). I guess that an adaptation of impedance is required through a preamplifier. The electronical chain would be similar to this.
Mic[Electret + preamplifier]=>Preamplifier_2(fo r impedance adaptation)=>jack line-in of the Iriver.
For the "preamplifier_2" , the power provided by the Iriver (like for a computer mic) can be used, and is about 2.5 Volts.

Anybody knows a circuit? Or an already made adaptation component that one can buy on the web?

[me]

Originally Posted by Datman

< My preamp with internal mics, external mic input, battery test and clipping light. Here are some of the photos: http://it.photos.groups.yahoo.com/gr....done=http%3a/>

That link brings me to Italian Yahoo, asks me for my password, I type in my Yahoo (US) user name and password, and I get an error message. I cannot see those photos.

[riverrun]

Has anyone had any experience recording with Rockbox on the H1xx? I have been using the Archos Recorder 20 with Rockbox for recording and have really appreciated its ability to change recording levels on the fly and even see recording levels. I'm waiting impatiently to have this option on my H140. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

[stijn]

Last weekend, I had the chance to borough a ECM-MS907 from a friend. It gave me exaclty the same result as the ATR25 which I have. As Sinamit is saying any pickup is overpowered by the circuitry noise, at low recording sound volumes. They both have virtually the same spec in terms of impedance (1K Ohm) and sensitivity (-54Db).

A company called Fel makes in-line pre amps which work with Plug-in power.Check:

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

Rode makes a video mic which looks promising, sensitivity up to -34Db and and only 200 Ohm impedance.

http://www.rodemicrophones.com/vide...nu=videomicMenu

I might try and build the following pre-amp to go with my ATR25 over the weekend if I get the time:

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page49.htm

Then there is the product of Maycom called the Mictube:

http://www.maycom.nl/main.html

Anybody out there how has some experience with any of the above?

Cheers,

Stijn

[Datman]

Originally Posted by me

That link brings me to Italian Yahoo, asks me for my password, I type in my Yahoo (US) user name and password, and I get an error message. I cannot see those photos.

Look at this link:
http://www.misticriver.net/boards/sh...922#post210922

[stijn]

Datman,

Looks excellent! What circuit did you use, were can I find a diagram and parts list for it?

Cheers,

Stijn

[me]

Originally Posted by Datman

Look at this link:
http://www.misticriver.net/boards/sh...922#post210922

That link brings one to a post on this board, that gives the same links in this thread. The top one, same as the one here, brings me to a page on Italian Yahoo asking for my Yahoo password. I enter it, and get an error message.

[stijn]

Hi,

I'm looking to make the following pre-amp over the weekend. That is, if I haven't bought anything of the shelf beforehand. Any comments anyone?

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page49.htm

Cheers,

Stijn

[yair_rottem]

i have iriver h10 20gb and i'm looking for a cradle where can i but iy?

[Febs]

Originally Posted by yair_rottem

i have iriver h10 20gb and i'm looking for a cradle where can i but iy?

Perhaps you should post your question in the H10 forum. This is the H100 series forum, and this is a thread about live recording, which has nothing to do with H10 cradles.

[stijn]

Changed my mind. I'm going for this amp.

http://www.geocities.com/ferocious_1...tml#references

Cheers,

Stijn

[Datman]

Originally Posted by me

That link brings one to a post on this board, that gives the same links in this thread. The top one, same as the one here, brings me to a page on Italian Yahoo asking for my Yahoo password. I enter it, and get an error message.

Look at the Tinypic links!

[Datman]

Originally Posted by stijn

Last weekend, I had the chance to borough a ECM-MS907 from a friend. It gave me exaclty the same result as the ATR25 which I have. As Sinamit is saying any pickup is overpowered by the circuitry noise, at low recording sound volumes. They both have virtually the same spec in terms of impedance (1K Ohm) and sensitivity (-54Db).

Cheers,

Stijn

The problem is not in the impedance, but in the integrated mic preamplifier: it's noisy for low level input signals. A high quality mic preamp is not very expensive (2 transistors, 1 double opamp, some resistors and capacitors), but commercial devices don't have them. Their pre are made only of a high sensitivity input in a "big" chip...
I have tested a very simple pre, powered by the Iriver's phantom, with only a transistor per channel. It has a gain of +14dB (5x), giving a similar amount in the signal/noise ratio improvement.
Wait for a tinypic photo of the schematic...

[Datman]

Originally Posted by stijn

Hi,

I'm looking to make the following pre-amp over the weekend. That is, if I haven't bought anything of the shelf beforehand. Any comments anyone?

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page49.htm

Cheers,

Stijn

Too many components (and is a very old schematic). With only one transistor and three resistors is better!

[TrentLion]

I want to use my iHP-120 (firmware version 1.65) to record my weekly gig: two guitars/vocals, 4 mics plugged into a Yamaha EMX640 mixer. There are good pics of this mixer, plus a key telling what everything does, at
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/proa...40/callout.htm
In the Output area of the mixer (lower right) is a Monitor Out, Main Out, and Rec Out (RCA stereo phono). There is no phones jack from which I might record. My understanding from the club manager is that I can record only from Rec Out, and my further understanding is that the Rec Out output is at a fixed level (can’t be controlled from the mixer), but somebody elsewhere in this forum who uses this mixer said, regarding recording from this mixer, “If you use the output jacks (monitor or main), the level is controlled from the monitor or main levels settings (just below the leds showing the db).” I asked this person if he was referring to the jacks on the front or the back of the mixer but have not heard back.

Using a stereo cable, I tried recording from the Monitor Out and also the Main Out in the Output area on the front of the mixer to Line In of my iHP-120 and got nothing. Using a Y-cable from Rec Out of the mixer to Line In of the iHP-120, I also got nothing. I don’t know if this is because I am not using the correct outputs or because I don’t have the iHP-120 set properly. I do have Line In set as the input sourceon the iHP-120 and tried various volume levels.

If there is an output on this mixer (Monitor Out and/or Main Out) whose volume level can be controlled, how do I coordinate that volume level setting with the Line In volume level setting of the iHP-120?

Which mixer output should I use, and how should I set my iHP-120?

I also have an external recording level meter (ISI-RLM-1 from ISI Innovative Specialists). Instructions say “It plugs into the headphone output (line out) of your recorder” so I don’t know whether to plug into headphone out or line out of the iHP-120 and will appreciate advice on this point. Under “Record Setting” of the iHP when you hit the A/B button in Record mode is a setting for “Output Vol.” Would that setting affect the reading of the recording level meter if I plug it into Line Out or Headphone Out and thereby make the meter reading useless?

Finally, I have a small in-line attenuator that can go between the mixer and the iHP-120, if that might be advisable. But so far I have no sound to attenuate.

I will appreciate receiving help. Thanks.
T-L
(iRiver iDiot)

[sanguis]

hey guys,

Does anyone know what the default volume for line-in recording is for fw 1.63(eu)? Yes, I know it's not configurable, but I'm finally upgrading fw and I'd like to know how the volume compares from 1.65 to 1.63.

I'd just like to confirm that if i don't change the default from 16, it will be the same volume as recording line-in with fw 1.63. Or, for example, is the 1.63 volume only comparable to, say, 8 with 1.65. Does that make sense?

Also, on a related issue, I've got some quiet gigs coming up over the next few weeks. Has anyone had any issues recording line-in on max volume (20), or is it all good (disregarding the glitch/fix)?

Actually, I've just realised (duh), for quiet gigs i may be better off switching to ext mic setting...

If that's the case, could someone give me a rough idea of how the ext mic volume maps to line-in volume? eg 20 line-in is equivalent to say 5 ext mic (picking numbers out of the air)? Has anyone had any problems with noise with ext mic?

Thanks for your time. I'm sure I could figure this stuff out by trial and error easily enough, but I'd be shocked if someone hasn't already taken the time to compare, and would like to share their knowledge.

PS btw, the reason i'm finally upgrading is cos i've been reasonably happy with 1.63 and have been holding off for rockbox to kick some iriver fw recording arse. But that seems to be a little way off yet, and I need the line-in volume boost for upcoming gigs, so I've bitten the bullet.

[sanguis]

Hi sanguis,

I'll have a shot at answering some your questions:

to my ears, the set line-in recording volume for fw v1.63 equated to the default level (16) for v1.65.

you *could* use ext mic, but you're gonna haffta unplug yer remote, cos there's this damn constant ticking noise throughout it when yer remote's plugged in. this can be a bit of a pain in the arse when you're trying to be, err, "stealthy". breaking out your machine whenever you want to check on anything isn't exactly subtle. If you need to be subtle-like, line in at max volume seems like your best bet. you can always normalise your recording later.

sorry...got some time to play and no-one was chipping in.

can't wait for rockbox...