H Series Live Recording Guide v1.0

[rubadub]

Originally Posted by tominghana

but which you would expect to be at a fairly standard line-out level. It distorts...

Is this normal? Anyone else had this problem?

Yes I found this too, I tried recording by plugging in the 2 jacks to my dvd player's audio out sockets into a 3.5mm in the iriver, came out very loud and distorted. I then tried it as a mic in with gain at 0 but it was even worse. My tv has a mic socket but I wanted the sound out of the dvd player not processed by the (cheap) TV, I am just going to rip the dvd sound with software which is the best way. I wanted to use the same idea with live radio broadcasts so will give the microphone setup a go, at least iriver included the mic-mic lead in the package.

Is there the same problem if using optical in?

[framesaver]

If you've got optical, go optical - No signal strength worries there.

[Shift]

Originally Posted by framesaver

The max voltage a 3.5mm jack can handle is about 10V - That's why phantom 48V powered mics have a different kind of socket... So I wouldn't go running anything that might have over that amount of juice to the player.

The voltage attenuator Chris describes would the best option when running to line outs that clip, or just avoid using the line outs and switch to the headphone out of your amp or source audio, which would at least give you the option of adjusting the volume.

So basicly, if the audio source has a headphone socket, I can plug one end my cable provided with the player into the headphone socket on the audio source, and the other end into the line-in on my iHP, as long as the volume on the source isn't way to loud?

[Julius]

Originally Posted by framesaver

And certainly most mics will need their output equalised after laying down the track.

Not all of them. I use and own a set of audio-technica binaurals (AT899c actually http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpr...les/AT899.html) and their sound is practically 'flat' natural on the ears; When equalizing recordings made with this set, most of the time I end up doing nothing on it, except some compression and harmonics-adding at times, depending on the recorded source audio/content and what it's intended for.

Got them from The Sound Professionals, and their service was really great, they downpriced the already low-priced deal by not charging me for shipment at all. I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

Anyway, I can recommend those mikes to anyone, even though they are omni-directional, I end up using them for almost ANY source these days, I even "DJ" with them, because they sound so perfect all the way. Very low noise, very good dynamics, warm and heavy reality-conformed low, as well as that luxurious audio-technica amount of highs.

[MAGICMAGID]

To framesaver & others!

I have some questions :

1- Can I connect ext mic to line-in port to record analog sound with iRiver products or others?
2- What is the quality of ext mic of iRiver H300 International Pack?
3- Finally, I want to record analog sound with ext mic in mp3 recorder. What is your suggestion?

[hypnotic monkey]

this has been really useful, as im going to be recording drum sample for my band thanks!

[scubajay]

going to see your favourite band?

Got an H120 that records with a mic?

Great. Do what I did, and leave it in the car like a moron, and only remember it halfway through the show.

Bollocks.

[framesaver]

Originally Posted by MAGICMAGID

To framesaver & others!

I have some questions :

1- Can I connect ext mic to line-in port to record analog sound with iRiver products or others?
2- What is the quality of ext mic of iRiver H300 International Pack?
3- Finally, I want to record analog sound with ext mic in mp3 recorder. What is your suggestion?

1. Yes, but make sure you adjust the settings on the iRiver to ensure it records using the external mic.

2. The packaged mic is comparable to a typical cheap desktop PC mic - Good for speech but not for live music etc.

3. It depends what else you want the recorder to do. If you want a large-memory music player that can record, get an Hxxx series. If you want a small memory flash player that can record in much the same way, get one of the iFP series. If you just want a sound recorder, maybe consider an olympus digital note taker or something.

[framesaver]

Originally Posted by Julius

Not all of them. I use and own a set of audio-technica binaurals (AT899c actually http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpr...les/AT899.html) and their sound is practically 'flat' natural on the ears; When equalizing recordings made with this set, most of the time I end up doing nothing on it, except some compression and harmonics-adding at times, depending on the recorded source audio/content and what it's intended for.

Got them from The Sound Professionals, and their service was really great, they downpriced the already low-priced deal by not charging me for shipment at all. I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

Anyway, I can recommend those mikes to anyone, even though they are omni-directional, I end up using them for almost ANY source these days, I even "DJ" with them, because they sound so perfect all the way. Very low noise, very good dynamics, warm and heavy reality-conformed low, as well as that luxurious audio-technica amount of highs.

Thanks for that - Always good to get advice from users of other types of mics.

If anyone else has stuff to add, don't be shy. Like I've said before, someone really ought to do up a 3xx series version of this, or at least list the main differences, just to help the rest of the 3 series folks out should they need steered in the right direction...

[Nand T]

I bought a Sony ECM-DS70P for recording acoustic guitar and vocal on my iHP-120. I was attracted to the ECM-DS70P due to it's size and cardioid pickup pattern. Unfortunately, as mentioned in the Live Recording guide, the sensitivity (-38dBV, ±3.5dB) is pretty low. If I set the gain to 12 and place the mic 6' from my guitar soundhole, I get a signal that barely moves the level meters on playback. Any more gain causes too much background hiss.

I'm thinking of pairing the mic with a small preamp, such as http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=5739284533. However, I don't know if the 20dB gain of this preamp will be enough for me. Does the iHP-120 EXT. MIC. volume setting of 12 correspond to a gain of 12dB or to something else? Also, is the 9V plug-in power of the above-mentioned preamp compatible with the DS70P?

[framesaver]

That little preamp looks to be a great find for anyone needing a budget option. Kudos to you! I'll put it in the 1.1 version of the guide (January sometime probably).

I think the Gain settings on the iRiver are pretty arbitrary, as a gain of 0 still amplifies the signal by a fair margin.

And all electret mics can take 9V - It's the 3.5mm jack that can't handle any more than that - Hence the familiar 3-pin sockets of 48V phantom-powered mics.

[reddshack]

I think this thread has been viewed enough times and has come into use for enough people that I 'stickied' it. GREAT WORK framesaver and everyone else!!

[framesaver]

Wahey! Thanks RS... Glad folks have found it useful. Like I said, I'll do up an updated version in the New Year, probably as a website (that is, if I ever pull my finger out and buy/borrow some webspace), so I'd probably need someone with a 3xx series to collaborate with... Any offers welcome.

Now, what's the chances of us ever seeing that 'recording feature upgrade' firmware...? *Watches pig fly past*

[madrascafe]

Hi all

I have created the PDF version of the guide. This will be available for 7 days only

http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=8B...259F77F8EC814A

[Nand T]

Thanks for the response, framesaver.

I'm still wondering, however, if the 20dB gain provided by the Church Audio preamp is significantly more than the gain provided at the iHP-120 mic input. Anyone know the specs on the mic input preamp?

[Shift]

Hey, sorry for posting this again. I know I already posted this message in this topic, but I didn't get a reply. I apologize if I am getting annoying with these questions, it's just I spent a lot of money on my iHP-120, and I want to be extra careful.

Originally Posted by framesaver

The max voltage a 3.5mm jack can handle is about 10V - That's why phantom 48V powered mics have a different kind of socket... So I wouldn't go running anything that might have over that amount of juice to the player.

The voltage attenuator Chris describes would the best option when running to line outs that clip, or just avoid using the line outs and switch to the headphone out of your amp or source audio, which would at least give you the option of adjusting the volume.

So basically, if the audio source has a headphone socket, I can plug one end my cable provided with the player into the headphone socket on the audio source, and the other end into the line-in on my iHP, as long as the volume on the source isn't way to loud?

[framesaver]

Yes Shift, that would be OK - I have transferred several minidisc recordings to the iRiver in this way.

[framesaver]

Originally Posted by Nand T

Thanks for the response, framesaver.

I'm still wondering, however, if the 20dB gain provided by the Church Audio preamp is significantly more than the gain provided at the iHP-120 mic input. Anyone know the specs on the mic input preamp?

Nand, I'll run a quick couple of tests this morning and try and quantify the levels of signal amplification the internal preamp does.

[stevenz]

I used my H140 to record a live gig the other week, I had it plugged into a monitor output on the 4-channel mixer they were using (just 2 mic's and a guitar). Other than the fact that the monitor level was lower than ideal, it recorded just over an hour of audio very nicely. I ran it through Goldwave to amplify it a bit, clean it up, and break it into individual tracks to write to a CD, and the end result sounds surprisingly good considering the very low-tech method the whole thing was put together. Very impressed. I can't say that I noticed the pop that the player generates when dumping the buffer, but I forget if it was supposed to do this using Line-In or not. (1.40 firmware).

I may have to lend the unit to my mate so he can record the Tenacious-D concert that I can't get to!

[framesaver]

Nand, (and anyone else interested)...

Preamp Amplification Level Test Results:

(Recorded a quiet sine wave signal from my laptop on line-in and 5 ext. mic volume settings)

Line-in (ie no preamp): -41dB

Gain 0: -30.5 dB
Gain 5: -23 dB
Gain 10: -15.5 dB
Gain 15: -8 dB
Gain 20: -0.2 dB

So it seems the deck can apply about 40db of amplification to a signal, though it gets fairly noisy up at the high ends - How much hiss you would get would all depend on your mic's signal-to-noise ratio.

So with 40dBs of amplification, and the DS70 is still pretty quiet eh? That is one insensitive mic.

I'd say go for the external preamp, which will probably be cleaner (giving better results if you need to amplify via software post-recording), and has the bonus of the 9V power, but maybe consider the combo Church Audio mics and preamp set...

[toolmanwill]

heres a quick thought though.... if the iHP 100 series is now officially discontinued, does this mean that support (ie. firmware updates) will be discontinued also????

i just purchased an iHP-120 brand new (one of the last ones around i could find over the past 2 weeks) and i'm going to use it to replace my Sony MZ-R70 MD for recording shows. I was origianlly getting a H340 (came in mail yesterday) but when i found out it had no WAV recording anymore i refused the package and they can have it back!!