Repair of fried players - maybe possible

[HorstIriver]

I have just joined this community, maybe I should post a short introduction. I have studied communications engineering, and I have worked for IBM for 28 years as hardware design engineer. My hobbies are, in addition to the IHP-120 of course , shortwave listening and building electronics for it. I play the cello, and I am mainly interested in classical music, but not only. I have read that it has happened to some people that they connected an 'inappropriate' charger and killed the IHP-xxx. After that, the IHP normally doesn't do anything anymore, and I am sure many of them were discarded. However, there is a chance to repair those units, provided one knows how to handle a very thin solder iron, and how to replace SMD components. And you will need some luck, there is no warranty that it will always work.

In order to keep the supply voltage clean, free of digital noise etc., the supply voltage of any mp3 player is buffered by tantalum capacitors on the board. Small black cubes of 2-3mm size, one side marked with a white bar. Because they are the smallest and cheapest, and because the iriver is a 5V-device. they will have used 6.3V types, or even 5.5V types. If the voltage exceeds 5.5 or 6.3V only slightly, those caps turn into a solid piece of wire, shorting the supply voltage to ground, and the current limiter of the iriver avoids explosions or fire hazards. The Iriver seems to be completele dead. The good thing is: Those caps will most probably die before the voltage gets high enough to damage the irreplaceable parts. That is why the harddisk often is not killed although it is supplied by the same voltage.

If I had a fried Iriver, I'd remove those caps, one at a time, and check if the iriver starts. It will work to some extent without those caps, maybe faulty, but one should see an improvement. After having removed the last cap that shorted the supply voltage, one can replace them, they are cheap and easy to get. Important: When removing the caps, write down the position of the white bar. Those caps are polarized, soldering them into the board the wrong way will kill them immediately after power-on.

Maybe some will try it... if the iriver is fried anyways, you can't make it worse, and 200$ are probably worth a few hours of tinkering

[caramelsoul]

Ill be sure to try that when the girlfriend fries my H320...its just a matter of time.

[Davide-NYC]

This might very well be one of the best posts ever made here!
Good work! Thanks for the post.
If someone tries this and succeeds please post a How-To.
Thanks again.

[jewman]

What ware the other specs of the capacitors. I'm searching Digi-Key, but there are 36 pages of 6.3 volt tantalum capacitors.

[HorstIriver]

I have just seen a picture of the Iriver PCB. As predicted, there are 6.3V Tantalum caps. Most black, but a few orange also. The voltage is printed on the caps. The other number specifies the capacitance. Example: 226. This means: 22 plus 6 zeros, 22.000.000pF = 22uF. The first two figures are text, the third number specifies the number of zeros, giving the cap value in pF. 1000.000 pF = 1 uF.
Or, on the picture: 107. That means 10 - 0000000 = 100.000.000pF = 100uF. Before removing caps, check with an Ohmmeter if they are shorted. Some of the caps are output/input coupling caps, they won't be damaged by too high a charger voltage, and therefor the Ohmmeter will not read 0.0. Replace only those caps that are shorted.

[MoAv]

Duuuuude, we need more people like you in such electronics loving community.
This is a great info you just gave us in saving mabey hundreds broken hearted owners, and mabey their players

Now mr. engineer, how do I mod my H140 into an electric shocker ??

[Tech_Cowboy]

I was under the impression that the chip marked "LTNP" was the one that burned out when the wrong charger was used (see link). I could be wrong, but maybe the LTNP dies when a charger with the wrong polarity is used, whereas the caps go when the voltage is exceeded. It would be interesting to test this theory. But who's going to kill at least two iRivers just to find out?

TC

[jumbuck]

this looks to be a tester for the li Ion charger chip if any body is keen. http://www.ti-estore.com/Merchant2/m...ode=BQ24022EVM

[HorstIriver]

Tech_Cowboy, your link leads to a ton of hardware info about the iriver, I didn't know that they were available. Thanks a lot! I went through the schematics, and I agree with you. If wrong polarity is used, chances are that the LTNP (harddisk power regulator) or the battery charger chip die. If too high a voltage is applied, the charger chip BQ24022 (AZU 3AW...) is a hot candidate. If the harddisk reg died, the iriver would still boot, but end up with a disk failure message or so. If the battery charger BQ... dies, it will have three options:
1) It shorts to ground. In that case, desoldering pin 10 and applying 3.7V from an external regulated power supply to the PCB pad of pin 10 should reanimate the iriver. If it works, the BQ... chip has to be replaced.
2) It opens. Not very probable because if that were the case, the iriver should still work, fed by its battery. However, the battery won't be charged anymore. But connecting the wrong AC adaptor wouldn't cause a sudden death.
3) It shorts in and out, bypassing the (too high) AC adaptor voltage directly to the board. That is what FETs usually do if run at overvoltage, and the BQ...chip uses FETs to supply the battery and the iriver. In that case, the caps will die, and maybe the battery as well.

Therfore I'd modify my repair instructions a bit. I would first detach pin 10 of the battery charger chip and check if the iriver can be operated from an ext. power supply. If yes, the chip has to be replaced. If this does not work, and if a lot of current is drawn from the external power supply, most probably one or several caps are fried. If the ext. power supply has an adjustable current limiter, the defective caps can be found by carefully increasing the current and checking the temperature of the caps. They must not get hot, not even warm.

The worst scenario is: The iriver draws little current, nothing gets hot, and it does not boot. In that case, the processor or one of the auxiliary chips are probably dead.

I guess a normally working iriver should draw about 100mA. The battery has a cap. of 1300mAh, and at 100mA it would provide 13h of operation.

Horst

[LAB DESIGN]

Not sure how this affects H300 units.. It's likely to be similar.

Check over at the rockbox forums, there is lots of information about iRiver CCT boards.

It's often not just one component that gets damaged. A Philips chip was damaged in my H300 and probably other components around it.

That chip is now obsolette.. not impossible to get.. but I couldn't get one from using my work influence with a Philips supplier, they offered 5 equivalent pieces as sample's for use in an imaginary new prototype GPS unit.

LD

[lovez2jam79]

THANK YOU!!!

I unwittingly (drukedness may have played a role) plugged my Iriver into my Starmate Replay charger the other night and fried it. I was pretty well content to toss it in the garbage, but figured I would do a little searching on the net first.


Anyway, I think it is fairly obvious which capacitor took the brunt of the dmg. I attempted to remove the capacitor from the board, but the soldering Iron I have is not hot enough/preciscise enough to handle the operation. I was however able to disconnect the capacitor, and the unit is working perfectly again.

I now have two questions.

How dangerous would it be to continue to operate the unit without the cap installed?

The markings on the cap seem to read 100 and 6n but as it is damaged I can't make it out with 100% positivity. How would I find an exact replacement for this cap?


Any tips on unsoldering/resoldering a new chip?

Thanks for any help in advance. (I was almost stuck reverting to a 3g Ipod )

[Davide-NYC]

I wish I had this info three months ago!!!!!!
Urghh.

[jumbuck]

Originally Posted by lovez2jam79

The markings on the cap seem to read 100 and 6n but as it is damaged I can't make it out with 100% positivity. How would I find an exact replacement for this cap?

This link might help identify the numbers on the cap.http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverInfo

[lovez2jam79]

I have to assume that the cap is 6.3v as that is what I am seeing everywhere. Would they change from a 107 to 100 PF for different series or generations? Is that even possible?

Anyway, I talked to a customer service rep at digi-key and they have 6.3v 107pf Surface resistors, but not the size that is needed on the Iriver... anyone done this fix yet, or suggest where to find these caps?

[HorstIriver]

Lovez2jam79, of course I am not glad that you fried your iriver, however, it is the first real example that shows that my theory seems to be right, at least sometimes. In your case, the wrong charger had enough current capability to fry that cap so hot that the damage is visible. The story behind those caps is: When you develop a circuit, you place some caps on the board to make sure that it works without interference. At that point, you don't know if you will really need all those caps, it depends on the future PCB layout and other factors. But because it is almost impossible to add additional caps later if it turns out that you need them, you most likely will have more caps on the board than necessary. If you made it to disconnect the cap reliably, and if the iriver works perfectly, there is no risk running it without the cap. Desoldering: Remove as much solder as possible, using desoldering braid. Then heat one end of the cap and try to remove it with a acute pair of pliers. The cap is most probably a 6.3V 100uF cap, not 100pF. You were talking about a resistor... you meant cap? 6.3V 107pf is the right one. Size doesn't play a role, as long as it is small enough to fit between the other components.
In case you hear statics/noises and the case of the 107pF is too big, you could also use a 47uF or 10uF. It is better than no cap at all.

Horst

[ghostintheruins98]

I think I fried my iHP-120 yesterday. I accidently plugged in the 12V adapter from my FM transmitter. It didn't even fit but just touching it still fried it. I don't see any visible damage to any components though. It actually worked for a little while after the incident if I would power it up from the reset button but now it no longer powers up at all. Did anyone have any success with repairs? Are there any places I can send it to be fixed at a reasonable price? I may part this thing out if I can't fix it. The display and HD seem to be fine.

[Doener]

Same here.....But i'm gonna take it to a guy at a friend's work who will measured it through...hopefully he can find something....

[Gadgetfreak]

I too just fried my ihp-140. It took 2 years, but I actually did it. Now I'm very very sad. I've read some discussion, here, about fixing the unit by myself. The thing is that I'm too afraid to do it.

1 - Is there anyone who does this? A reputable shop in Canada perhaps (that's where I'm from)?

2 - Is there a suitable NON-iPod replacement out there?

TIA.

Gadgetfreak

[lovez2jam79]

hey again...

My unit working was only short lived.... The charging light turns on, but the battery is not taking a charge. The unit no longer functions even when plugged into the proper charger.

I took the unit to an electronics repair shop, and he said he disconnected the caps, and replaced the bad cap with a good cap, but is still not getting anything out of the unit... I am picking the unit up from him tomorrow, and I guess I will try to figure something else out from there, but he says it dosen't look like there is much that could be done????

[HorstIriver]

Your player is fine, else it wouldn't have worked without the cap. I bet that the charger chip is bad. It is that quadratic chip, 5 pins on 2 sides, 2 pins on the other 2 sides. On my picture, it is just below the power connector. It is a Texas Instruments chip, you can find detailled infos on:

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/vie...wareComponents

If you can't replace it yourself, maybe the repair shop will be able to do it. We know more about the Iriver hardware than they do
If you follow the link to Texas Instruments on the rockbox link above, you can download the data sheet and select the appropriate part number. The chip in the iriver is an AZU... you can even order it directly from TI. I know that replacing SMD components is not easy... you need a solder iron fine like the tip of a pencil, a big magnifying glass mounted at your table, and a steady hand.


Horst

[naboonaboo]

Originally Posted by Tech_Cowboy

I was under the impression that the chip marked "LTNP" was the one that burned out when the wrong charger was used (see link). I could be wrong, but maybe the LTNP dies when a charger with the wrong polarity is used, whereas the caps go when the voltage is exceeded. It would be interesting to test this theory. But who's going to kill at least two iRivers just to find out?

TC

well I can confirm this as I mistakenly plugged a 12v supply (which was supposed to power my ide to usb adaptor) into the H120 and the green light came on but wouldnt turn on.

I have taken it apart and found a brown scorch mark on the hard drive which sits directly above the LTNP chip.
Looking at the chip it is deffo fried
you can only see the top 5 "pegs" as the bottom of the chip is hidden by the hard drive support. and I think i need to desolder 4 fixing pegs to remove the hard drive support block

the first 3 pegs of the chip (looking left to right) seem ok and its the 4 and 5 pegs of the chip that look burnt and ther is a definate raised portion of the chip over these two pegs like a the blistering on paint you get when it is burnt.

I dont know if this is of any more help but Im wondering if i can get a replacement of this chip anywhere as Im willing to replace it

[HorstIriver]

The LTNP chip is a Linear Technology LTC3440. If you go to their site www.linear.com and search for 3440, you will find all kind of information about it. And you can order it, or request a sample. If you request a sample, tell them that you are currently developping an external hard drive box - it should sound a bit professional because the samples are normally completely free, or they want a handling fee.

Horst