An alternative view of iRiver re firmware

[winty]

Like many others, I have my own personal wish list of features I'd like to see introduced. Sometimes I'm frustrated that they're missing, and sometimes I participate in the numerous threads about evil iRiver and their depraved firmware designs.

However...

iRiver is a company that has released products, and then gone back to those old product lines and ADDED OGG SUPPORT to those machines. When I read about that, as I was trying to decide on a HD MP3 player, I remember thinking "wow, what a fantastic company, so loyal to their old customers".

So, why do we not refer to the current obsession with lyrics as a "blip" in the roadmap, and that soon iRiver will get back to releasing really useful firmware for old models?

[coreman]

The voice of reason does not work with iRiver..adding .ogg to their "old" products was actually updating products still being made and sold with firmware that was easily ported to the older platforms.

Lyrics is far from a blip..considering the HDD players still have a major flaw in the DB manager and that is it won't recognize either .ogg or .wma formats. It is completely useless for those who use these formats exclusively. This was something that should have been fixed months ago...but yet they can launch a NEW Lyrics DB Manager before fixing their mainstream player manager...completely idiotic move to me.....

I also was a "voice of reason" early on...but quickly found out the truth about iRiver....

[Nick114]

....and they keep advertising the fact that there is updateable firmware that is being released all the time to make your IHP better. I dont think the have kept to their promises............ .............yet.... .................... ..

[R.C]

Yeah, some people here are forgeting that just recently iRiver has implanted OGG support for the IMP's and UMS capability for the IFP's!
Have you ever thought that maybe fixing the IHP problems and adding the functions you all want is not that easy? Maybe they are trying really hard even right now? Maybe the new firmware is just a little something for now to show you that they still care, while they are working on the "real" thing that won't be out until it's 100% bug free?
Don't be too harsh with iRiver. If you want to appreciate your luck go to other players boards and see what those people are dealing with.
You should thank god that all the IHP problems are just firmware related, and not quality control or defective parts issues (Zen Xtra, Karma..). Sure, you'r allowed to be bitter if your player is not working properly. After all, iRiver has charged the hell out of you for those toys! But keep in mind that you already have the best player in the market, and it's not THAT far from being perfect, so cheer up and be patient

[Nick114]

i see your point, but endless lyric support managers that are the same as each other does get a tad on the boring side *yawn*....

[FlameGrilled]

I, having been in closer contact with Reigncom (the company behind the iRiver brand) than most people here, can safely be sympathetic to a good amount of the criticism that's out of late against 'iRiver'.

I dont agree with the 'they are evil' claims that some are throwing around, no more than i can stand the same garbage about WMA being bad because of it's 'Evil MS' inclination. Just because you cannot accept that life isn't perfect dont mean it's fair game to start quoting 'evil'. There is a lot more true evil in the world, and 'are evil' claimers regarding MS/RIAA/iRiver etc are just plain losing the plot in a big way.

The feedback and communication aspect of complaints - gets my 100% support, as it's a big part of what caused me to cut all background ties with Reigncom.

i could go on down this path, but it's only repeating well-known 'cat' history... so i wont bother to extend the reply unncecessarily.

[seadzz]

recently iRiver has implanted OGG support for the IMP's and UMS capability for the IFP's!

This is not exactly correct. The UMS firmware still does not support ogg. It was slated to be out in January....that did not happen.

If I were iRiver I'd slow down launching new products and correct the outstanding issues with the existing platforms. However, I am superimposing western logic on a Korean company and that may not equate well with reality.

sdz

[FlameGrilled]

Ohhhh the oh-so-wonderful battery-eating Ogg codec implementation that the Ogg fanatics bullied into existence, then complained about it...

Well, that's one aspect where i sympathised with the lack of Reigncom communications - as opening up lines of communication to nutters (like the bullies of the Ogg community) is a fatal mistake.

Those kinda people make stalkers and manic-obsessives almost bareable by comparision.

I wouldn't be too suprised if some internal 'whistleblower' ended up revealing some internal 'policy' where major firmware projects had been back-burnered due to the crap and hassle the whole Ogg matter caused, created and still persists to do so to this day.

If that has happened - thank the Ogg bullies..., preferably by means of a good hard kick(or ten) to the head and the male soft dangly bits...

[coreman]

Originally Posted by R.C

Yeah, some people here are forgeting that just recently iRiver has implanted OGG support for the IMP's and UMS capability for the IFP's!

OK so they are finally fulfilling some of their promises, big deal!

Have you ever thought that maybe fixing the IHP problems and adding the functions you all want is not that easy? Maybe they are trying really hard even right now? Maybe the new firmware is just a little something for now to show you that they still care, while they are working on the "real" thing that won't be out until it's 100% bug free?

Not my problem, it's their business to overcome the tough problems BUT they easily could have already fixed the DB Manager to recognize .ogg/.wma to show us they are doing something..after all Gacel already did it with his IHPTOOL program

Don't be too harsh with iRiver. If you want to appreciate your luck go to other players boards and see what those people are dealing with.

Don't have to, I already did that in my research phase..spent a lot of time and recognized that there were reliability issues with other players and not with iRiver's although the iHP series was just launched.

You should thank god that all the IHP problems are just firmware related

No, I can thank iRiver for this mess

But keep in mind that you already have the best player in the market, and it's not THAT far from being perfect, so cheer up and be patient

I know this....and that is why I still own mine...but I'm not going to "play nice" with iRiver!

[Exo]

Originally Posted by FlameGrilled

Ohhhh the oh-so-wonderful battery-eating Ogg codec implementation that the Ogg fanatics bullied into existence, then complained about it...

Ogg doesn't use any more battery if you compare a equal quality Ogg Vs a high rate MP3 since the MP3 needs to have a much higher bit rate.
You can't compare a Ogg 160kbps vs a MP3 160kbps on battery consumption since they are two different qualities.

I personally bought the iHP because of it's Ogg support, MP3 is crap until you encode at the higher bit rates.
I don't care if battery time is half, the fact that iRiver have a player that can play back quality files is the most important thing to me.
Hats off to iRiver JUST FOR THAT FEATURE ALONE, if that makes them sell more because of that feature (it sold it to me), then it was a wise move to work on that as a firmware upgrade.

However,
I don't use MP3 at all, and so the recent firmware (1.50) is as good as a waste of time for me because of the following:
a) I'm not slightly interested in seeing lyrics
b) Lyric support is not compatible with Ogg (nor the DB system they current have)

I think this is the debate here right? iRiver wasting time on firmware upgrades that are not what we want?

Hopefully they'll now spend more time fixing existing bugs and flaws such as being unable to play track to track without a gap (not good on mix or continuous CD's) since I think we have everything we need in the way of features now.

Overall I think they are doing a great job.

[tpilk]

I'm pretty surprised to see the Pro iRiver Camp having this many members, especially after the LDB outrage.

To this I say "cry me an iRiver" because my sympathy does not lie with the company or the programmers. As many before me have said, if they advertise upgradeable firmware, they could at least deliver on that promise. There have been precious few "upgrades" to the 1.whatever that was bundled with the 100 series players when I got mine in January.

I do not consider the lyrics support an upgrade. It's the 3-foot tall carbon fiber spoiler on the back of an 82 Honda Civic. The umbrella in a tropical drink. It's basically useless, but some people might think it's neat. Thus, there it is. I feel like this is all some big shell game where the good firmware should be under #3, but it's not.

I'm not an iRiver hater. I like my 120 a bunch and wouldn't trade it for anything. But I do expect the few glaring omissions and little goofs in the firmware to be addressed as soon as possible.

[y0da]

well at least they seem to have run out of things to add to the lyric support....(knock on wood)


alltho if you had asked me before 1.50N if i thought it was possable that it would just be more lyric support i would of gave a nervous laugh and changed the subject

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by seadzz

If I were iRiver I'd slow down launching new products and correct the outstanding issues with the existing platforms. However, I am superimposing western logic on a Korean company and that may not equate well with reality.

Maybe I'm missing something, but surely all companies regardless of where they are from would be more interested in releasing new products than fixing old ones, they'll get far more money from those new sales after all.

As consumers we'd like them to sort out our exisiting toys, but you can see why they settle for older products being good enough rather than just right, if you think about it, this lyric junk does actually fulfill their claims of upgradeable firmware even if its not what we want.

[HeartsOfWar]

I think everyone who has bought into any product eventually feels that the manufacturer isn't listening to them. I mean, you're one person shouting for what YOU want. Why should they listen? Sure maybe if enough people shout they'll listen, but there are limitations to everything.

Just remember, you can't do what they do.. and I bet you wouldn't want to once you discovered what it's like being on the 'INSIDE'...

Have patience, enjoy what you spent your 'HARD EARNED' money on, and appreciate it... afterall, like everyone has said and continues to agree with, the IHP 1XX is the best.

[rd]

RC vs RD!!!

Ugh! The Iriver apologists have surfaced.

So your thought is that updating the firmware is too difficult. They are just trying oh so hard to give us what we want but coding is just too darn complicated. I can see the engineer right now. "OTF Playlists!!! Auggh!! *spikes his coffee on the ground* How does everyone else do it!!! *slumps over his keyboard crying*"

Let me know when your ready to return from imaginary land. Don't forget to say goodbye to the leprechans and unicorns.

[FlameGrilled]

I do, Hearts, i simply forget iRiver ever existed every time i load up a compressed audio cd and try not to look back to the days between when they bothered to support their flagship decks properly (that's iMP-250/350 days) and feel sorry for the 'flagship' users (iMP-550/iHP) who get a raw deal now.

It'd take a bloody miracle for me to even want to hand over money, directly or indirectly, to iRiver for the priv of owning products they are determined to not bother giving decent support to by means of meaningful firmware upgrades.

And yes, bloody lyric support mods don't qualify as 'meaningful' when Reigncom know full well there are more urgent fundamental wishes that revolve around fixing marginal issues on the simple mod of playback - i highly doubt the rec issues will ever be fixed 'officially'.

[winty]

Originally Posted by FlameGrilled

... and feel sorry for the 'flagship' users (iMP-550/iHP) who get a raw deal now.

To be honest, it's never a good move to buy any device on the promise of future features to come. The iHP had the right features for me at the right price, so I bought it. I got what I paid for.

I'd quite like to get gapless support, but for me it's a tiny thing. If they never implement it, I will still always be happy with my player. In no respect do I feel this was a raw deal. Perhaps I'm just too cynical to ever believe anything that comes out of a company's marketing department.

What DOES really annoy me is the fact that people rave about the iHP's sound quality, when frankly it's lackluster. That marketing doesn't come from iRiver so much as the fanboyz.

Originally Posted by tpilk

I'm pretty surprised to see the Pro iRiver Camp having this many members...

I'm not Pro iRiver per se, I'm just happy enough with my player.

The original reason for my post was that I was wondering how badly supported the iHP100 boys had been. I was expecting people to respond saying "we're all pissed at iRiver because we had to wait 4 months for them to sort out sputtering VBR mp3s" or something. Actually noone's said that. Sounds like the bulk of the player functions have always worked.

Is there anywhere I can read a release schedule of past firmwares, and the fixes they contained?

[Big D]

Winty said:

What DOES really annoy me is the fact that people rave about the iHP's sound quality, when frankly it's lackluster. That marketing doesn't come from iRiver so much as the fanboyz.

Why does it annoy you that people rave about the iHP's sound quality? I personally think it is excellent and there are many who agree. Do you think it might be you, personally, who has a problem with the sound quality?

In all the reviews of the iHP I have seen the sound quality is something it has excelled in.

I'd be worried if someone else's personal opinion annoyed me.

Lighten up.

[reddshack]

This is just me thinking in my happy land........

I personally don't think that "firmware updates" are going to fix all the issues that there are regarding the iHP's. They will fix some, but the rest....I don't think it's possible. The opertions and commands that are in the firmware code are directly related to the electronics and schematics inside the player. At some point, things just aren't possible to fix with firmware due to the player itself. Some reasons for not fixing things (well, they haven't fixed anything at all yet) is because they can't. There is not some kind of "magic" firmware that will make everyone happy and give all the features that everyone is asking. Basically, you just have to admit defeat.........and start enjoying your player for what it is.

With the whole lyric support issue.....I think that was/is a beta type test to see it's functionality with their future H300's. It is something that once they get it right on the H100's.....changing the code slightly and porting it shouldn't be too much more. If you look at the lyric support in the way of that iRiver is just trying out some new features for their new product line....it starts to make a little more sense. Having a color screen, Jpeg support, etc etc AND a "Kareoke Feature" will make the H300's have that 1 more twist that the other players don't. Still useless, yes, but they found something to add that nobody else ever will (because who else would waste their resources for that??).

It makes sense to me in that way thinking of it like that. Trying out new features on old products so that their new products will be some what perfected. I'm not Pro or Anti iRiver, but they just might know what they are doing after all.

[seadzz]

but they just might know what they are doing after all.

Ah, they are clueless as to what they are doing. Two years ago the majority of their engineering staff (both guys) were up to their knees in a rice paddy. Now they are writing code. Just great!!

iRiver bought the line of carp from some marketing outfit that by changing their logo to pink their market deomgraphics would shift from 99% male dominated to 50%. I have seen this bull before and indicates that the guy at the top is calling the shots and he is even more clueless then the people working for him.

Fortunately for me I own one of the original ihp-120's that will become a collectors item.....pre iRiver going down the toilet.

sdz