Apple iPod 20GB vs iRiver iHP-120

[nwatts]

Hello.

I'm new here, so go easy!

I'm also interested in a new MP3 player (fancy that!). I've been researching around for quite some time and i've come down to these two players. But, I can't seem to decide on which one to pick.

I love the pure looks of the iPod, they certainly beat the goldy coloured iHP-120 (I live in Australia, we miss out on the black one!). It comes with a neat little dock that would certianly help in the transfer of music, and the iPod filesystem seems to be a lot less complex than that of the iHP-120. I've also listened to an iPod first hand, where as I haven't ever actually heard an iHP-120.

The iPod's battery is probably the main thing turning me off at the moment. 8 hours seems just too short, compared to the 16 hours that the iHP-120 boasts. It also uses the firewire interface, which is fine, but I don't have firewire on every PC I use... as well as that, I can't install iTunes on every PC I use so that would limit the use of the iPod greatly. The iHP-120 uses USB2.0 and doesn't seem to need any software to run, just plug it in (XP,2000 only) and off you go!

Which brings me to the iHP-120. I'm super keen on the FM radio and recording features it has, as well as its ability to play Ogg Vorbis (which most of my music library is encoded in). I love the little LCD remote supplied with the iHP-120 too, as the iPod completely lacks a decent remote.

Now, I have no idea what do buy now! Each player is the same price, and have balanced features!

If anyone can offer some more information, or suggestions please feel free. I'd also love to hear from people who've compared the iPod and the iHP-120 first hand.

Thanks
Nick

[PorkRind]

Here's my take:

The player will spend most of it's time in your pocket or it's case. Style probably won't really matter that much in the long run.

The filesystem for the iHP-1xx players is the same filesystem used on the most common operating system in use today, MS Windows. 10 minutes of fooling around with your player will have you navigating folders and subfolders with ease, and it's unlikely that you'll forget this skill easily. It does take a bit of rigor in the organization of your music library, but once you start doing it, it's easy to maintain.

Should you ever need to replace the battery in the iHP, it will cost half of what it would for battery replacement in the iPod. And it's unlikely that you'll need to replace the iHP Li-Poly battery anyway, since it's useful life is nearly 3 times that of the more conventional Li-Ion iPod battery.

The USB2 vs. Firewire issue is nothing to sneeze at. Although I think Firewire is the superior technology, the fact that USB is everywhere means that the iHP's ability to grow its music library from, ahem, "local" sources is significantly enhanced over the iPod's (that is, unless all of your friends own Macs ). Besides the player, all you need to bring with you is your USB cable.

The only downside to the iHP-series players is their lack of support for DRM; if you plan on being an iTunes/WalMart/Napster/etc. subscriber, your life will become more complex with the iHP. This may be rectified with a future firmware update, but there's no guarantee.

[nwatts]

At the moment, it's Style vs Batteries! There isn't really anything else to it. I don't need DRM support, as us Aussies can't get a hold of legitimate music easily.

I'd grab the Firewire > USB adapter for the iPod if I get it. It's only around AU$30, so it's not really much of a concern.

[PorkRind]

I should also mention that the iHP series works with USB 1.1, too. No where near as fast, but still gets an album or two on or off the player in a minute or few. And that makes it compatible with virtually every PC made in the last 4 years.

Have you checked out the remote on the iHP? The display and otherwise complete functionality offered through it blow away the one that comes with the iPod. I stick the iHP in a pocket and clip the remote to a flap on my jacket, and I've got no reason to haul the player out of it's nice, safe place.

Finally, are you buying a player to look at or listen to? If DRM isn't an issue, you get one helluva bigger bang for your AU$ with the iHP. And if you want something to admire for style, keep a picture of an iPod in your wallet

[Apoc]

As for the style.. my friend has a 10GB 2nd gen iPod.. and it does have alot of scratches.. so if you pick 'style' make sure you get a decent case for it aswell or you will rather quickly regret it.

[Sharki]

Ok,
I will try to do this without bashing the ipod!!!!
I walk around (US by the way) and see people with the white phones and ask myself how can people be so stupid????
Maybe they just follow the trends and the marketing wave. The only way I would ever by an IPOD is if I had a Mac and was loyal to it for years.

How can one even compare???? The ipod doesnt have half of the features that the ihp has - Line in / out, Optical, mic, FM. It weighs the same, it's almost the same in size. and the battery life.... please this is the use of the machine, hello.... PORTABLE AUDIO!!!!
But what seals the deal (besides of course 80 dollars less here in the US), is the lacks of strings, registration, software and other tie-ins that Apple forces you to use. Please think about this each time you place an ipod on a cradle and it is registered to the itunes or other program and the designated workstation, someone in the world is just plugging their ihp via usb (no software, no registered workstation, no limit of workstations, no firewire adaptor, etc) and voila, file transfer, file organization, no strings attached, and this works with any PC.

THe only strong hold that I think the Ipod has is the marketing efforts (which are excellent and worthy of a good word) ended up in lots of cases, and equipment and additional accessories. Keep in mind this could go both ways because anything you want you have to pay more for, but you do get less options of carry cases and add-ons, in the case of the IHP. Personaly it doesnt bother me, and I dont think that a carry case is a deal breaker here.

you do the math my friend, I am not a genius but I dont think this is even a tough decision.

[FlameGrilled]

Well, if the iPod does fall short of expectations due to a lesser feature set (in audio terms), then the iHP also fails to meet the best expectations set by a HDD standard in the market place.

I mean that fairly to all :-

the iPod is sold on style and the Apple name, to attract people who dont particularly care about getting the best audio feature combination around. In fact, a hell of a lot of iPod's are sold on the attractiveness of being able to use the iTunes store - pity, tough cookes, if (like me) you are in the wrong bloody region as usual.

The JB3 was sold as a player/recorder in the same light as pre-Live SB sound cards were feature packed and damn good recording devices for their money back then. The fact it's the only really current model available in the UK without any tangible nasty limits on how you record and to what limits of max duration and sampling rate just carries on, in the MP3/WAV tradition set out by the JB1.

The Zen is really the style the average JB1/3 user would have liked their JB to been, and is far better (usuability and style) than the jokey joke of a JB2 (that b*stard model that got released as a kind of player-only JB3, with no real price break to speak of). Zen's came in closer to the right proportional price for what is primarly a player with voice/tuner rec when used with the remote.

The oddballs, Karma etc, are all much themes on the same lines as the Jb1/3 or Zen type spec/feature combinations - remember, most of these existed before or just before the iPod/iHP combinations hit the market.

The iHP started out wrong, on price, considering it's crippled recording capability, but as the price has come down.. it's heading in the right direction for what is fully a player/voice recorder - as it's 'full' recording capability isn't really up to spec to qualify it's inclusion in the upper side of 400 UKP (i.e. 299-399 UKP) price it started out as.

FG

[FlameGrilled]

'But what seals the deal (besides of course 80 dollars less here in the US), is the lacks of strings, registration, software and other tie-ins that Apple forces you to use. Please think about this each time you place an ipod on a cradle and it is registered to the itunes or other program and the designated workstation, someone in the world is just plugging their ihp via usb (no software, no registered workstation, no limit of workstations, no firewire adaptor, etc) and voila, file transfer, file organization, no strings attached, and this works with any PC.'

That lot, purely, is a personal issue - it's not a 'do or die' thing that makes one les worthy a buy than the other.

That's like someone saying there is no place for keeping on a Jb1 in the world of UMS HDD decks, because it uses a manager and internal content locking. Whether that matters, depends on the owner/buyer.. not it's right to be considered worthy in general.

FG

[Dangital]

Since the original poster was asking about batteries - you can now purchase a replacement battery for the iRiver iHP series players for about $50 US, and stick it in yourself. No soldering is required. As for the file system - the filesystem is FAT32, same as DOS and Windows 9x. If you meant the directory structure used on the player, that's up to you - you can organize the files however you like. It's just a hard drive that happens to have a decent music player/recorder/radio tacked on.

:P

[FlameGrilled]

'the filesystem is FAT32, same as DOS and Windows 9x'

To keep that bit, whilst fundamentally right, in perspective - DOS used FAT16, FAT32 though DOS mode under the version of 'DOS' that's installed under/inside Win 9x/ME. DOS, proper, wont touch a FAT32 partition without a fudge.

FG

[divad6719]

Mmm, I reckon the whole deal is a personal issue. It just comes down to what YOU want.

All the negatives here against the iPod can be countered if you so wish, (barring the battery life issue).

Price- I paid 330 quid for my 10gb iHP-100, fair go this was my own decision. It still smarts when I think about it though, especially when I look at the prices now (not even 5 months later). iRiver should have had a fairer price scheme from the begining, sometimes I wonder what on earth I paid for.

From a personal viewpoint (like I pointed out in another post),
FM- never used it
Line in/ out- never used it
Recording- never used it
Remote- Hardly used it

Now, that was just my experience.
Somebody else may have gotten a 120 for a bargain and may also use all the functions to the full. Like I said, it's personal.

As for being tied to iTunes etc, I can (after playing around with it a bit) see why some people would go for this. I see nothing wrong in having an all in one jukebox that rips, encodes and synchs your music to your player. To be honest, after a few years of tinkering and using several different programs (at the same time !!) to encode my music, iTunes looks kind of appealing.

I think what it comes down to is that they are two very different machines that basically perform the same function, play music. Which one you buy depends on what you want from a player. As far as I see both have advantages and disadvantages depending on how you look at it.

PS I'm trying to chose between a 120 and an iPod as well (to replace my 100), and I must say I agree with your comment about the champagne colour

[FlameGrilled]

Definately, all the downsides (bar battery life) can be countered or discounted down to personal taste - it's the money thats painful really (it makes the original iHP price look kinda sane), but again.. that's a personal one.

Like yourself in respect of moving to iTunes, Div, in moving back to Atrac for the higher-quality format use, i've got used to using SonicStage (the full one - i'm using an advance release copy of SonicStage 2.0), and like iTunes (which i did test out), if you wanna go back to the quiet life.. after way too many days/hours/weeks messing with the techy/geeky/audiophile-reject version of pointless transparancy seeking (i.e. the typical way) just to get back to enjoying the music, then iTunes works well enough.

FG

[divad6719]

if you wanna go back to the quiet life.. after way too many days/hours/weeks messing with the techy/geeky/audiophile-reject version of pointless transparancy seeking (i.e. the typical way) just to get back to enjoying the music, then iTunes works well enough.

Now thats what I'm talking about

Not saying I will, I'm a natural tinkerer, but it sure is tempting just now. Surely I could find something new to waste my time with.

OT
FG, just in passing, I used to have an MZ-N1 (beautiful machine). Never used SonicStage with it but the OpenMG software (at that time) was horrendous. One of the main reasons I sold it eventually. Sony did themselves no favours with that mess.

[seadzz]

Without turning this thread into a “religious issue” let me state my position once and for all on this question.

The iRiver HD offering does not come in “pink”, day glow “blue” or any other unmentionable colours.

This fact means something to me and goes a very long way in my decision making process.

sdz

[John]

I have a buddy with a son who was wanting to buy an iPod. Knowing I had an iHP-120, we all got together so the young lad could see what his hard earned pocket-money could buy. I mentioned the battery issues with the iPod and that I thought that the iHP-120 had better sound, better compatability with Windows based machines etc.

What did the young lad do?

The silly sod went ahead and bought the iPod and hasn't stopped complaining about the crappy battery-life, "doesn't sound as good as John's iHP-120" and "I can't copy some files from the PC".

You pay your money and you make your choice. It pays to listen to advice.

John (I want to be buried with my iHP-120)

[Dster]

How old was the kid? Peer pressure and perceived coolness probably played a big role.

[nwatts]

Thanks for the replies guys . I think you've really helped.

At the moment, i'm steering towards the iHP-120. I think i'd use the remote HEAPS, and I also think it'd benefit from the longer battery life.

John: You've got a champagne coloured unit? Could you show me some pics of what it looks like in real life (if you've got any)?

Also, does anyone know where or how I could buy a black iHP-120 in Australia? The colour of the unit if just about the only real thing turning me off it at the moment.

[Adam]

I had an iPod, got overwhelmed by the marketing and hype. Realised it wasn't all that good. Sold it and got an iHP-120. The iPod was all about the style, the iHP is all about the music.

[HeartsOfWar]

You really can't compare an IPOD or an IHP product fairly...

Apple, since I can remember, has always leaned more towards style and expression of an individual through technology. Sure Apple have done some brilliant things in the past, but they rely too heavily on what 'looks good' & whats 'easy'.

The IPOD certainly is a product of Apple's ingenuity. You can definately see the style and expression. Unfortunately, this form of marketing is what drives the younger generation. There are a few kids that are the exception, but more now than ever, they want what makes them look 'cool' or 'hip'.

For those Apple lover's:

The IPOD will certainly do the job and do it well. The IPOD integrates well with OS X, has calendar support, basic games, and even has Apple scripting support... + other tools that make it stand between a PDA and a Digital Audio Player.

The IHP will do just as good a job as the IPOD. Of course, no official support for any Apple scripts, games, contact lists, or calendars. Also, finding USB on a mac is not hard, but it's a little sparse; however, the IHP has features the IPOD doesn't... Line in / Optical line out, FM, High battery capacity, Recording (Decent), & very nice remote.

For the PC people:

IPOD's are quite a limiting choice. As someone has pointed out, Firewire is not a widely accepted PC standard compared to USB, and unfortunately, USB cables are sold seperately from the IPOD. Second, some of the advanced features will be accessible, but Apple scripts will not be supported under windows. Third Apple has always been a tight-knit community where service and support is expensive. Having an IPOD breakdown, as an Apple employee said, would be just as costly to repair as buying a new one. Most Apple fans don't mind the cost, but PC users do.

What we see is that the IPOD was designed to exploit the Apple fans, and manage to cater to PC's on a basic level; however, the IHP caters to both almost in an equal fashion. Of course there are some traits that favor a pc or mac, but once again IPOD is shooting for their fan base mostly.

[molex]

I got my IH-120 in Australia for just over AUS$550. I basically said "I can get an Ipod 20GB for that price down the road, match it or lose this lovely bundle of cash" and it worked!
IMost of my friends have Ipods and I've spent alot of hours round there places fixing no end of problems. Itune compatability, firewire issues, music dropoputs etc etc.
I was still going to buy an Ipod as I wanted a high capacity player. I'd never heard of an IHP-120 until I walked in with my money and they didn't have any Ipods. Afetr 45 mins or so of chatting, I bough my IHP-120 there and then. The looks don't bother me as it spends its life in the supplied black leather case, so basically is black. I've used the radio plenty and get good reception (and here in Sydney, thats saying something) I even use the voice recordered to show thmy PA how annoying her voice can be! I don't regret buying mine for a second. The only slight downside is that there aren't as many accsesories for the ihp, such as the multi card reader, that the ipod has. I solved that by buy a $30 card reader that plugs into the same useb cable as the ihp and wieghs about 50g. I still need a computer but it's very unlikely that I'll run out of camera memory before getting to one.
As mentioned above, it all comes down to personal taste. I'm pretty much tone deaf (can't tell the quality difference between a 128KBPs and a 320KBPs file format) but I am the kind of person who likes trying something new. Also, I work on windows and the ability to litirally just plug and play has come in very handy when I sometimes work from home and need to transfere large files.

Hope you manage to make your decision and are happy with whichever one you go with.

[deathmarch]

I know 2 people with iPod, one has had his for about 4 months, and it's broken already. there were loads of problems trying to get the software to work properly on his and other people's PCs. my other friend just got his on xmas.. it's so scratched it looks like he's had it for a year.

[tryagain]

I think the iHP wins on hardware features. iPod wins on software features.