H140 Joystick Worn-out!!!!

[eogmp3]

Hi,
The joystick on my H140 has worn out. Its been going for the last while - the down motion was tempremental, now whenever I push it I get a wierd hissing noise. I can still navigate the menus, but it doesn't sound healthy. It makes this hissing whenever the joystick is pressed, even when HOLD is on. Has this happened to anyone else? I have had my H140 for about 18months, and have used it heavily. Maybe this is just their life expectancy? Any way of buying parts etc and replacing the joystick? I can't find my remote control at the moment, maybe i'll start using that.

[muesli]

mmh, doesnt sound good :-/ i should stop playing gameboy games...

[eogmp3]

Rockbox loaded and much appreciated, but haven't bothered with Rockboy yet. Just normal navigation I'm afraid.

So nobody has heard of this happening before?
Any suggestions? Could I repair it some how, if I opened it up?

[hypnotic monkey]

well, i sent my first H140 to iriver and they replaced the joystick (as it was really loose!)

but since then i have purchased another but i got a bit of a worn joystick (cosmetically) so i took my old player apart, and switched the plastic silver bits around (which required ALOT of force to remove)

your actual joystick ( a silver cube ) is firmly soldered onto the circuit board, and so i dont rate your chances of replacing the thing unfortunatly

try iriver though as i know they replaced the entire thing for me.

good luck

[eogmp3]

Thanks. I must open it up to look. Does anyone know if it would be possible to replace the actual joystick, ie take it off & resolder another one on, if i got the spare part? Is it even theoretically possible?

[NPswimdude500]

Originally Posted by eogmp3

Thanks. I must open it up to look. Does anyone know if it would be possible to replace the actual joystick, ie take it off & resolder another one on, if i got the spare part? Is it even theoretically possible?

yes, it should be possible. my iFP-340 has a similar joystick, but smaller. it has about 8 solder points, and if one were two replace it, i don't think it'd be very difficult.....

the 1xx joysticks are much bigger though, so they might be/probably are different...

[eogmp3]

ok, might try to fix it. have never opened it b4 though. will check it out.

[sweetspot]

Hey, since you'e going to open it up and attempt to fix it, why not investigate whether or not you can replace the joystick with a different type. Perhaps somehting a bit more "friendly" ?

[eogmp3]

if i get it working again at all I'll be happy. I actually liked how the joystick works, as is clear from how much I used it and the consequent wear out ;(

Who are the real modders in this forum? I might need their advice etc. I might start a new thread.

[Evilempire86]

Try Haku, Electronics genius! he knows this stuff! Try the rockbox Wiki files, so see if they documented the joystick at all, they may have pin layouts, diagrams etc of it. Depending on the layout of the pins that are soldered to the PCB, you could use some other form of control, although its unlikely u will find something that will have the same pin layout and stick through the joystick hole properly. Have you opened the player yet? If so take pics of both sides of the PCB around the joystick. This page, outlines the buttons. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/vie...ts#The_Buttons

Its not much help for what you're trying to do. This page
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverInfo

is alot better, as you can see (in the pic 2nd down on the left, where the joystick is removed), that the joystick has 6 soldered pins. Im going hunting for a similar component, wish me luck, I may be some time!

[Evilempire86]

Actually, just a thought, in idea, a cranial muttering. I just realised the mousewheel on my mouse is very similar to the way the H120 joysticks are, ie, it goes up and down, side to side, and you can click it! if someone got that mod to work, id do it, scrollind lists would be massively improved! Just a thought, i know it probably wont work, sure the boffins out there will tell me why.

[eogmp3]

Thanks Evil Empire. That is definately a great help! At least I have some idea what to expect now. Don't have time to open it up at the moment, but will let you know how it goes. In the meantime, any other suggestions would be very welcome. THANKS again!
-eogmp3

[eogmp3]

quick qustion. As I said, I'm new to soldering, but I do know a guy who has done some. How would I go about safely removing the current, worn out joystick without damaging the board?

[Evilempire86]

If you have a soldering iron, heat it up. Disconnect the battery of the device, just in case. Then CAREFULLY heat the solder connecting the pins to the board, so that it just melts, while gently wiggling the component. Keep reheating and wiggling untill you have the component free from the board. Alternativly, go to a diy or electronics place and buy a "Solder-Sucker", which is a small vacuum pump. Then heat the solder on each pin, and use the solder sucker to remove the molten solder. Repeat for all pins and the component should come off. Be careful not to melt any of the metal tracks on the PCB (Printed Circuit Board), and be careful with it, they can be brittle.

Ive had a snoop around electronics sites and the like, havent found anything too promising. Its quite a complex switch that the H100s use. U would be better trying to find another H100 series and doing a transplant, mehtinks.

[eogmp3]

Thanks again Evil Empire. Yeah, think i'll try and find someone with a dead player, who will donate their joystick.

[rubber-glove]

Originally Posted by Evilempire86

If you have a soldering iron, heat it up. Disconnect the battery of the device, just in case. Then CAREFULLY heat the solder connecting the pins to the board, so that it just melts, while gently wiggling the component. Keep reheating and wiggling untill you have the component free from the board. Alternativly, go to a diy or electronics place and buy a "Solder-Sucker", which is a small vacuum pump. Then heat the solder on each pin, and use the solder sucker to remove the molten solder. Repeat for all pins and the component should come off. Be careful not to melt any of the metal tracks on the PCB (Printed Circuit Board), and be careful with it, they can be brittle.

aside from all that, be *careful*. it's quite likely that there are some heat sensitive devices nearby that could easily be damaged/destroyed with a hot soldering iron. DON'T leave the iron in one spot for too long.

also, the solder sucker thing is good for large gobs of solder, but i'd recommend some de-soldering braid for the detail work.
a wet sponge or something to clean the soldering iron tip is helpful as well.

finally, don't grab the wrong end of the soldering iron. (don't laugh. i left some finger prints on one that was sitting in an ashtray and moved around on me).

good luck.

de-soldering is a messy business...

[Dunno]

hmm, I wonder if disassembly of the component and rebuild of the worn part might be feasible, just guessing here as I dont know how complex the design is.

Edit: We need a helpful iriver employee to point out who manufactures the joystick, we need some inside info to track this down.

Have you thought of asking iriver for a quote on a repair for this ?, might be pleasantly surprised.

[the_winch]

I would cut the joystick leads to remove the joystick. After you have cut it off use the soldering iron to remove the individual leads.

When people learn to de-solder overheating is a common problem. You have to coordinate both the soldering iron and the braid and it's easy to forget about how much heat you are applying. Another reason to avoid the solder suckers, not only do you have to position them correctly you also have to release the plunger at the correct time which is an extra thing to worry about.

[rubber-glove]

Originally Posted by the_winch

I would cut the joystick leads to remove the joystick. After you have cut it off use the soldering iron to remove the individual leads.

good point, as long as you can get in there to snip, that's probably the way to go.


but this whole joystick assembly, it should really just be a...er, 4 position switch with a center button, no? i couldn't say for sure, but i would think that any replacement which would fit would be okay.

say, for instance this:

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/623/1088.pdf

who knows, this may even be the kind that iriver used. it'll cost between $1-5 to find out, i guess.

i'm interested in this, since i expect that the joystick will be the first thing to go (either that or, say the lcd, hard drive, etc....)

i'd suggest getting on the rockbox IRC and asking whoever (linusN i assume) took the photos...

-cheers.

[drfeelgood!]

anyone got an idea for a rubbery joystick - sometimes w/ wet/sweaty fingers, it slides off the joystick. I'm thinking, cover the top w/ the type of material Sony uses for their PS2 controller's analog stick?

Not sure what would be the best thing to use to keep the cover on it. My joystick, thank goodness, is still in fine working condition *knocks on wooden desk*, so that isn't a problem here. More a decision of astethics (spelling) and functionality, not troubleshooting. Thanks for giving us a place for all these questions. Some forums are such crap, it's good to see one or two that really shine w/ good users and excellent admins.

[Evilempire86]

Good idea feelgood. Something similar has been done before with little rubber bits that u stick on drawers. Use a hole punch on 1 and its the right size, then just stick it on, as theyre self ashesive.

[eogmp3]

Ok - finally getting around to trying to do something about this. I have opened up the unit:

The three solder points on the left have become detached - the three on the other side are still fine. This seems to explains a lot - whenever i held the joystick firmly down the buzzing noise would stop. Was I then allowing the current to flow through these three broken solder points? I.e. - the buzzing is there when there is a gap between the metal tracks and the remaining solder, and gone when I push them together?

Anyway - i'm going to attempt to solder it. I need advice on where to start. Should I desolder the remaining three - clean the whole thing up and then try to solder all six points again? Should I just try and apply solder to the three problem joints? I have consulted several online soldering guides but I am interested to hear what any experienced solderers advise. Can anyone recommend a good guide?

Also - can I be of help to others? I.e. Should I take photos or something?

Please give your opinions. Thanks,
eogmp3

[pachinkoman]

yes, please take photos