Magnet made H120 no longer boot

[msnook]

Hi all,

I have an iHP-120 (same as H120 referred to here?) and it has worked great for over a year now. Until... I bought a new tank bag for my motorcycle tank that is held on by magnets, I put my H120 into it and when I turned it on it stayed stuck at "READ FILE SYSTEM". I'm pretty sure this problem was caused by the magnets - they are quite strong and it was sitting directly on top of one of them, less than 1/8" away. How ironic is that, I only bought the bag for holding the MP3 player and never considered this potential problem!

I have all my files backed up but how can I get it to boot up again? I've tried the Reset button, and holding the Record button while turning it on. No luck.

Details: I hooked it up at home with an AC adapter, the green light comes on and I let it charge fully. Then when you press the Reset button the red light comes on, you see the first screen saying START and if you put your ear close, you can hear the normal quiet hard driver access/clatter. Then when it goes to the Read File System screen you can still hear the hard drive but it is just spinning and no clatter. And it is stuck there, for hours and hours (or until the battery goes low, if not on AC).

When I connect it to my PC, Windows XP gives a beep but does not recognize it as a drive at all, so I cannot access it.

I have my annual summer solstice party coming up tomorrow and now I have no way to play my music playlists. My one big party per year... I'm bummed.

Can I fix it easily, or what do you think is wrong and how can I even pay to fix it? I have firmware 1.60, I think it is the latest, and it has been working fine. I've read some of the opposing viewpoints about the effect or non-effect of magnets.

thanks SO much, you guys rock.
-matt

[FlameGrilled]

Well, i wont get into a thing about how it happened, beyond... hope you learn't a valuable lesson (aka, knowing there were substantial magnets involved, it's normal to not put HDD's near them like that).

Well, you could try connecting the player to your PC/Mac and reformatting the drive - you have nothing to lose except the content.

Alternatively, and it's kinda a last ditch attempt - you could try HDD Regenerator (a cheap bit of software) that's sort of claiming to recover lost sectors etc (aka give a 'damaged' HDD a new lease of life). I cannot verify if it's claim is sound as i have only tested with with a commericially-written-off HDD (aka ferked, only good for sending to the recyclers), but what it has managed to do for me (with another HDD that was reading badly and none of the usual candidates in the data rec software world would touch) is do enough regen/recovery to enable a physcially undamaged (but corrupt) HDD to be readable again for the most part by an OS and definately data-recovery util readable.

I think SpinRite also does a similar job - but i aint familar with it.

Look up the items, and their costs - you'll probably find one or the other cheaper than an out-of-warranty RMA effort in the event your player is out of warranty or (as would be the case here) the fault is caused by USER ABUSE (no, not being judgemental, but anything that's not caused by a product/component failure by means of a faulty item fitted, is classifed as user mishandling and is NOT warranty covered legally).

[bat]

Looks like it's dead, sorry. Did you tried the hold trick ? When I get a read file system error it works great.
just read this :
I thought my H140 died!

[msnook]

Hey it's ok to call me an idiot (I'm an electrical engineer with 20 years of R&D design experience at HP). Clearly I wasn't thinking here.

I can't seem to get Windows Explorer to see it as an external drive. I hear the 2-note sound from WinXP but the Found New Hardware type message never comes up and it never shows up in the Explorer window. Shouldn't the USB connection part be in firmware ROM somewhere and always work?

How can I ever run any format utility if I can't get a connection? Is there a way to see it via a DOS window?

Also, I have an iRiver eBox where I asked another question, but I never registered it with serial number. Is there any way to register it now and send it in for repair. Never mind, that wouldn't be fair - it was my mistake.

sigh, stupid is as stupid does. I was so careful to never drop it or get it wet, and then one stupid biker mistake... The bag advertised capped shielded magnets but who knows what that really means. I mean it was right on top of it.

-matt

[Handbag]

Did you try connecting the player to the PC then going into (on WinXP) settings - control panel - administrative tools - computer management - storage - disk management?
It would show in there if the drive was connected, but maybe assigned to the same letter as another device etc or some other problem.

[Handbag]

Also see this thread, particularly post #13 onwards

magnets i hate magnets

Maybe not all is lost just yet so don't give up.

[msnook]

Holy crap Bat - man! The Hold + Reset deal fixed my problem!!! I had read about holding the Record button but didn't read this one. This should definitely be put into the FAQ by someone, unless I missed it, it's not there!!

Merci beaucoup mon ami Bat!

The Net wisdom rocks. I want to make a monetary donation to both Bat and Haku, as they saved not only my iRiver but my annual summer solstice Midsummer party tomorrow!!! (I'm serious, are you guys on Paypal?)

Guess this was an "interesting magnet test" for all of you on my behalf - if you are curious, the tank bag I bought is at the following link, and I place the H120 right on top of the rear magnet by the handle.... http://www.tourmaster.com/product.html?sku=82-426

Gee, now how far can I take my magnet stupidity test.... I just wonder if I can still use my new tank bag but keep it more like 2-3 inches away from the magnets. If I dare to be stupid enough (thanks Weird Al), and try this I'll let you all know the results. And I just might!

THANKS,
-matt

[msnook]

Hi Handbag,

Yes I had already read that entire post about magnets. I searched this site for 3 hours last night. That's why I said I read the posts that claim magnets may or may not cause damage.

This thread will now probably morph into: can magnets cause problems???

Well my magnet is about 2" diameter and probably .25" thick or less. I'm thinking now that the drive was about .5" above the magnet.

I have a R&D friend in the HDD industry and even knows Toshiba R&D contacts. He doesn't understand why the USB connection still didn't work. He says sometimes a strong field can "confuse" the head. Not damage it but get it into a bad state. SO this Hold+Reset fix caused something in HW or firmware to reinitialize as the platter was evidentally not damaged at all (or the head). Hmmm...

thanks again to all, -matt

[bat]

Happy to see it's cleared enjoy ! But I still think you should be careful with your magnets. The first time I had this error I thought my player was dead, and I let it discharge completely just in case. The next day it was up and running, but the hold + reset trick is much faster ! We need to thank the great Haku for this trick .

[zezayer]

Magnets will cause a HDD to lose/corrupt data.

This prob caused ur iriver to crash.

The reset/hold trick has been arround a long time, it is recomended in the manual!

Would recomend you check the drive for errors tho to stop it happening again.

[msnook]

Bat,
How do you let it discharge completely? Just put it on any song in repeat mode? And how does this help anything?

Zezayer,
In my case I'm not sure what the magnets did but I do agree it is bad for it. In my ihp-120 manual there is NO reference to Hold+Reset at all. I read it 3 times, searched on Hold then Reset and read each one. Nothing. But I'm glad you guys told me and I really don't think it is in the FAQ either, as I searched on reset, but not sure about that one.

So how do I check the drive for errors? Do I mount it and run a Windows utility? Which one and how?

thanks,
-matt

[bat]

Originally Posted by msnook

Bat,
How do you let it discharge completely? Just put it on any song in repeat mode? And how does this help anything?

Zezayer,
In my case I'm not sure what the magnets did but I do agree it is bad for it. In my ihp-120 manual there is NO reference to Hold+Reset at all. I read it 3 times, searched on Hold then Reset and read each one. Nothing. But I'm glad you guys told me and I really don't think it is in the FAQ either, as I searched on reset, but not sure about that one.

So how do I check the drive for errors? Do I mount it and run a Windows utility? Which one and how?

thanks,
-matt

Zezayer was talking about "our" manual, must be a sticky topic I guess. About the drive check I guess Windows utility is enough. For myself I use windows chkdsk and another software called diskperfect or diskchecker (I'm not sure about the name).
And since the disk is spinning when the read file system bug happens, I just let it spin 'till the battery was flat. Since the battery is completely flat, it's more than a simple reset. I guess the bug concerns how the firmware use the HDD and so a simple reset isn't enough.