How random is random play on the hp120/140?

[dafadau]

I read in a review on this site that theres a firmware bug that doesn't give true random play?

I'm seriously considering the hp140, but this would be a huge problem for me, and could well drive me to the Rio Karma (which looks excellent, but seems to be of dubious build quality.


I tend to play all my music on random play 99% of the time, so it's essential to have true random play!

[zen]

ok i remember reading about this. i just bought a ihp-140 the other day so im in the same boat as you pretty much. the random play seems ok, but i dont think its true random play...

BUT in the next firmware update (due anytime now) there will be true random play amongst a whole load of new features.

im loving my iriver, its the best purchase ive made all year, now i cant wait for the new firmware and iskins!

[Mike]

Lots of posts here on the topic--search for "shuffle." And it is going to be fixed, momentarily. In the meanwhile, I don't see it as an impediment to a great player, and it still does randomize. And if you want to randomize "even further," you can create a playlist using Tag Database Tool and shuffle that way.

[dafadau]

thanks for the replies

I did search, but for "random" not "shuffle"!

So this firmware update is scheduled for any day now? Hmmmmm, if it's not out by next week, I may well have to go for the Rio KArma.

I think.

[turdburglar]

In my mind, that's not a very good feature to make or break your decision. First off, it's coming in the new firmware, secondly, there are ways around it in the meantime.

I like my iRiver because of other features: FM radio, recording, etc.

Plus, I went to Best Buy and held both the Karma and the iHp in my hot little hand, and the Karma just didn't feel as sturdy. It felt more like a toy, flimsy a bit.

My suggestion to you is to not make your decision solely on a small, small feature that not only is getting fixed officially, but also has workarounds in the meantime. Not a wise buying decision.

[dafadau]

Originally Posted by turdburglar

In my mind, that's not a very good feature to make or break your decision. First off, it's coming in the new firmware, secondly, there are ways around it in the meantime.

I like my iRiver because of other features: FM radio, recording, etc.

Plus, I went to Best Buy and held both the Karma and the iHp in my hot little hand, and the Karma just didn't feel as sturdy. It felt more like a toy, flimsy a bit.

My suggestion to you is to not make your decision solely on a small, small feature that not only is getting fixed officially, but also has workarounds in the meantime. Not a wise buying decision.

I take your point, but for me, it is one of the most important features. I really do play 99% of my music on random mode, and I want true random of all my songs.

I take your point about build quality, I'm quite likely to give the player a hard time, so thats a huge negative for the karma.

But I need that random mode!

What's iriver's track record like in keeping promises of new firmware?

[Nick114]

Basically, for you and other newbies, the "random" shuffle the ihp currently has (pre firmware) is if you go forward a track, that is random. However, when you go back a track, it is the same track that was last played. In a truly random shuffle, it would be a different song.

e.g. You're listening to "song 4", the next on the random when that finishes is "song 9". When you are listening to "song 9" and go back a song, a truly random shuffle would take to another random song, "song 2". However, the h-120/140 takes you back to "song 4".

Its not really a problem, just some people like it to be truly random. Its nothing to stop you buying one.

[pokecapn]

Is that seriously it? That sounds more like a feature than a bug!

[reddshack]

Originally Posted by pokecapn

Is that seriously it? That sounds more like a feature than a bug!

I haven't used random/shuffle play too much, but to my best understanding what Nick says is correct. However, it also goes much deeper than just simply put as that. The "bug" that is currently on the shuffle play of the iHP players is:

If you choose to play randomly all of your songs, the iHP does a quick look at your songs and chooses X amount of them that it will include in it's play. After it's played all of those songs randomly from the X amount, it will repeat through in the same order all of those songs again. I use X for the example because it's dependant upon how much music is on your player.

So the bug is the fact that as of now, it's not possible for all of your songs to get included in a random play, however, each time you start a random play it should be a different random grouping of X songs to play randomly (make sense? ).

If you were to ever have over 9,000 songs like me, this would never be an issue because the integer X would probably equal several thousand songs, which would take days to listen to. If you only had a few hundred songs though, that is when it would suck .

[dafadau]

Originally Posted by reddshack

I haven't used random/shuffle play too much, but to my best understanding what Nick says is correct. However, it also goes much deeper than just simply put as that. The "bug" that is currently on the shuffle play of the iHP players is:

If you choose to play randomly all of your songs, the iHP does a quick look at your songs and chooses X amount of them that it will include in it's play. After it's played all of those songs randomly from the X amount, it will repeat through in the same order all of those songs again. I use X for the example because it's dependant upon how much music is on your player.

So the bug is the fact that as of now, it's not possible for all of your songs to get included in a random play, however, each time you start a random play it should be a different random grouping of X songs to play randomly (make sense? ).

If you were to ever have over 9,000 songs like me, this would never be an issue because the integer X would probably equal several thousand songs, which would take days to listen to. If you only had a few hundred songs though, that is when it would suck .

I'm pretty much sold on the iriver, but this makes it worse I think!!

[turdburglar]

As far as iRiver and keeping promises on firmware.. well, lately it's been a bit iffy.. but the firmware will get here soon, I'm sure. I doubt they would delay it more than once, which has already happened. If they delayed it too many times, people would revolt (as some are already doing)

But the biggest suggestion I can make to you is to realize there are workarounds to the shuffle "problem"

I personally don't find it a problem, because when I use shuffle (I do a lot by the way) I'm in the middle of listening to an album, then I turn shuffle on... so rarely do I start the shuffle from the same track. I've only noticed it not being "real" shuffle twice, and that's because I started it from the same track (i.e. the first in the player.) My personal workaround is to just pick a random song on your own to start with, then let shuffle do its thing.

Then there's the playlist suggestion given above by Mike. I'm sure there's even more workarounds that creative people here have come up with.

And the firmware will be here at some point, of this I have no doubt.

And don't forget the other selling points: optical in/out, recording, fm radio, internal/external mic, blah blah blah.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy, I'm just giving you my point of view. Take it as you will. I have owned 3 different HDD MP3 players in the past.. the creative zen xtra, the iRiver, and I owned an ipod for about 20 days.. less than the 30 day return policy

[Xenna]

Originally Posted by Nick114

Basically, for you and other newbies, the "random" shuffle the ihp currently has (pre firmware) is if you go forward a track, that is random. However, when you go back a track, it is the same track that was last played. In a truly random shuffle, it would be a different song.

No, that's not my problem. I like to use shuffle mode a lot as well. Suppose I have two playlists and I listen to list A in shuffle mode I get a certain order, say: 2, 8, 3, 9, 1. Then I go and play list B shuffled. After that when I return to list A and play it shuffled once again I get exactly the same order as the first time: 2, 8, 3, 9, 1.

That is real silly...

[Exo]

Yeah, I too find quite often simply playing in shuffle mode I get the SAME TRACKS, and SAME ORDER as I did the day before.
It's NOT random at all.

[turdburglar]

You're right. A trick around that is to pick the first song at random yourself. Until the new firmware comes out of course.

[TCK]

In the meantime, make a .m3u playlist (Winamp does this, as well as other programs) of the songs you want to randomise (separate albums or the whole H1X0), and choose to shuffle the playlist. Then load the playlist onto your iRiver and shuffle the previously shuffled playlist.

In theory, you'll only be doing this for 10 or so days (possibly not even any days if the firmware is released by time you receive the product), and if you mean to shuffle the whole contents of your H1X0 you probably wouldn't notice anything significant for about a month of use. Hell, took me two months to notice.

[Lone]

I thought it didn't work to shuffle playlists on the actual player itself? Hmm, I'll have to test that.

Edit: I sit corrected. Shuffle does shuffle the playlists.