The Clix battery issue is REALLY a problem!!! Solve it!

[Goodgot001]

I own a Clix 4GB. I made many tests to verify how long my battery can run, and it's perfect, with 192 kbps and even with more kbps and VBR mp3 I can play more than 24 hours of music.
But if I play 2 or 3 hours of music a day for 3 or 4 days, the player drains the battery VERY VERY QUICKLY!!! Probably even after 8 hours of playing!!!!!!! This is not acceptable!!!
And stop posting this is just a problem of few people... EVERY CLIX HAS THIS PROBLEM, BECAUSE EVERY CLIX TURNS TO SLEEP MODE WHEN PUSHING THE OFF BUTTON, AND TURNS OFF ONLY AFTER 24 HOURS!! This is a problem that should be solved by iriver with a new firmware, adding the possibility to TURN OFF the Clix with the on/off button immediately, not just turn it to the SLEEP MODE.

NOTE: I suggest that everyone that found this problem sends an email to the support at iriveramerica in the SUPPORT section of the website, and explains his opinion.

I hope you all accept my suggestion...

[Important] This thread applies to clix1 only.

[kevinj1987]

lol, Every clix has this problem huh? You must be God

[Ted Yo!]

Just for the sake of scientific experiment, do you get different results if you turn it off completly every day?

(Turn off completly = turn on the hold switch and poke the reset hole.)

[caramelsoul]

I never understood what the problem is when you can charge it every night when you sleep...

[owlyn12345]

The problem is that the battery is only good for about 300 (or so) charging cycles. If it lasts 25 hours, and you listen for 2 hours a day, well do the math...
It's not a problem.

But if you charge it every day, it's dead in a year.

[clixnewbie]

ok the clix uses Li-poly rechargeable battery based on the iriver site http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/ul.../clix-2GB.aspx which has more than 300 cycles around 1000 cycles

[Ted Yo!]

I believe you are talking about full discharge/recharge cycles. As I remember it actually isn't good on the battery to do a full discharge very often. Given every day use your battery should last longer if you charge it every other day or so and only fully discharge it on occasions.

Disclaimer: I'd have to go look up lithium polymer behavior again to be 100% positive, but I am reasonably sure.

[gorcorps]

The problem isn't the battery itself, it's the sleep mode. I agree with the OP... it's a pretty annoying problem that could be easily remedied with a firmware update. An option to change how long the sleep mode lasts. Or reduce it to a couple hours.

[rkt88edmo1]

The sleep mode killing the battery is ridiculous. Time from sleep to full power off should be user selectable.

[Ted Yo!]

I don't think anyone here was blaming the battery, it was just a tangent the thread took. The OP can prove if the sleep implementation is at fault with the test I proposed.

[_gmureddu_]

Here's what I've noticed:

The battery runs for about "3 days" if playing 1-3 hours a day and I have SRS WOW and shuffle turned on, which maxes out at about 9-10 hours of "continous accumulated" play. I agree there might be a problem here, but I'm not sure how much SRS WOW and the shuffle function could drain more power from the CPU causing in the end a decrease in battery life. I will have to test without SRS WOW and compare.

I also agree that there should be a firmware option to reduce the time the player stays in stand-by and goes straight into poweroff.

[tygastyle80]

Yup. I posted the same topic, albeit a slightly more inflammatory version a couple weeks ago and was bombarded with inane iPod jokes and derogatory comments by the people on this board. Good to see some people finally admitting to the fact that ther is indeed a very real problem with the battery life (possibly due to the firmware). Is iRiver too busy pulling 18 new products (check out main page) out of its axe to update what appears to be a serious issue with the clix firmare? It sure looks like it. Please fix this issue iRiver.

[Goodgot001]

Originally Posted by tygastyle80

Yup. I posted the same topic, albeit a slightly more inflammatory version a couple weeks ago and was bombarded with inane iPod jokes and derogatory comments by the people on this board.

I posted a new thread beacause I read your post and the other about the same issue, and we have to put in evidence to iriver the problem. I have already sent an email to the support center. Please do the same.

[Goodgot001]

Originally Posted by kevinj1987

lol, Every clix has this problem huh? You must be God

No need to be god... Every Clix has the same firmware (Clix 2GB v.1.11 or Clix 4GB v.2.00), so every Clix has the same problem.

You kill your battery if you charge it every day (you can't have an infinite number of charging cycles), and you kill it even faster if you don't allow a complete discharge! This is because of the memory effects on DoD (Depth of Discharge), that even if in Li-polymer and Li-ion are smaller than in Ni-MH or other batteries, are still a little problem.

So please stop defending Clix even if it has a real problem. It is a wonderful digital player and please contribute to its improvement sending a message to iriver support!!

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

You kill your battery if you charge it every day (you can't have an infinite number of charging cycles), and you kill it even faster if you don't allow a complete discharge! This is because of the memory effects on DoD (Depth of Discharge), that even if in Li-polymer and Li-ion are smaller than in Ni-MH or other batteries, are still a little problem.

Err, memory is not an attribute of either of these forms of battery, it should not be detectable at all. In lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries discharging and fully recharging (so a complete cycle) the battery does more damage than many short charges.

I agree with what you want though, you should be able to turn it off straight away.

[Goodgot001]

I'm happy you agree!! Thanks!

Anyway in li-ion and li-poly the memory effect is only theoretically absent. I am an engineering student, I studied batteries for aerospace use, an even in batteries for such application you can never have a totally absent memory effect, so it's always better to completely discharge batteries.
If you like you can charge them every day... but you can't say that it's BETTER to charge them every day even if the battery isn't discharged.
And of course every single battery charging process is considered as a cycle, no matter what the level of charge left, so all this cycles will kill your battery life....

Anyway I hope iriver updates the next firmware fixing this problem!

[traut]

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

No need to be god... Every Clix has the same firmware (Clix 2GB v.1.11 or Clix 4GB v.2.00), so every Clix has the same problem.

You kill your battery if you charge it every day (you can't have an infinite number of charging cycles), and you kill it even faster if you don't allow a complete discharge! This is because of the memory effects on DoD (Depth of Discharge), that even if in Li-polymer and Li-ion are smaller than in Ni-MH or other batteries, are still a little problem.

Do you have any proof for your claims? I consulted several sites which alla confirmed that a full 90% discharge will harm a Li-battery more than nine 10%-cycles.

I agree that you can't have an infinite number of charging cycles. But assuming e.g. a lifetime of 500 cycles, recharging the battery every day by 10 % will provide a lifetime of more than 10 years. It's the Li-battery itself which will stop working before, regardless of charging or not: it will degrade even without charging or decharging, just by time. I doubt that many batteries will live longer than five years.

[Goodgot001]

Charging by 10% and then using the Clix again results in a cycle... So if you charge it every day, even by 10%, and I charge it twice a week after a deep discharge, your battery will die before mine.
How could they set an average life of the battery based on cycle number if it's so dependent on the depth of discharge of a single cycle?!

Anyway note that 10% is probably not using the Clix at all... I'm sure that the sleep mode drains more than 10% of the complete charge during a day!!
This problem must be solved!!!!!!

[traut]

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

Charging by 10% and then using the Clix again results in a cycle...

No, charging by 10 % is NOT a cycle. A cycle is defined by a full recharge.

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

So if you charge it every day, even by 10%, and I charge it twice a week after a deep discharge, your battery will die before mine.

I asked for proof. Do you have any?

Here's an example for my proof: http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
"The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge."

How could they set an average life of the battery based on cycle number if it's so dependent on the depth of discharge of a single cycle?!

A) because it's an average number
B) because a partial recharge does not count as much as a full charge.
C) because a cycle is defined by the amount of a full charge

Anyway note that 10% is probably not using the Clix at all...

Taking a claimed runtime of 34 hours, this would be more than 3 hours per day. You say that's nothing?

This problem must be solved!!!!!!

multiple exclamation marks!!11eleven!! http://www.electric-escape.net/pratchett/Eric#109

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

Anyway in li-ion and li-poly the memory effect is only theoretically absent. I am an engineering student, I studied batteries for aerospace use, an even in batteries for such application you can never have a totally absent memory effect, so it's always better to completely discharge batteries.

The memory also appears to be practically absent too... The only 'memory' these batteries suffer is cause by the level meter needing recalibration after so many incomplete discharge/recharge cycles. Easily corrected by periodically performing a full discharge and recharge.

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

If you like you can charge them every day... but you can't say that it's BETTER to charge them every day even if the battery isn't discharged.
And of course every single battery charging process is considered as a cycle, no matter what the level of charge left, so all this cycles will kill your battery life....

Originally Posted by Goodgot001

Charging by 10% and then using the Clix again results in a cycle... So if you charge it every day, even by 10%, and I charge it twice a week after a deep discharge, your battery will die before mine.
How could they set an average life of the battery based on cycle number if it's so dependent on the depth of discharge of a single cycle?!

Anyway note that 10% is probably not using the Clix at all... I'm sure that the sleep mode drains more than 10% of the complete charge during a day!!
This problem must be solved!!!!!!

As stated by traut, a cycle (in terms of battery longevity) is a full discharge and recharge. The main reason behind small frequent charging is to avoid the increased strain put on lithium ion batteries by long charges and discharges, see the batteryuniversity link traut posted.