The Clix battery issue is REALLY a problem!!! Solve it! - Page 3

Kelly Brown · #81 (**permalink**) January 27th, 2007, 10:34 AM

I have a 4GB clix and had been wondering if it was just my player. I agree that this battery issue is absurd. I saw 20+ hours of continuous playback and figured I should be able to use the thing for a week between charges. If you have to bring your computer or an AC adapter with you if you'll be gone for more than a day or two then this makes the thing much less portable. It would seem like allowing you to choose whether the power button sleeps or turns the thing off would be a simple firmware change. I hope they do this, cause it completely spoils an otherwise excellent product for me. I wouldn't have bought this thing if I had known this would be a problem.

**clieos** · #82 (**permalink**) January 27th, 2007, 11:16 AM

@Goodgot001: As much as you don't believe in my calculation and number, I still make the estimation that you have at least 80% (or more) of normal battery life based on the rough timing you provided in your first post (and based on the fact that your music is in high bitrate). You don't have to believe in me, but based on my calculation (and other clix owners who experience the same battery life spend that I have), my number tells me that islandbuoy have >40% of battery life, which strongly suggest a faulty battery that needed to be RMA. It is not a sleep mode issue. It is a hardware problem that can't be fixed by any software means.

If people believe that sleep mode is a problem than they will email iriver as you suggested. However, it won't be useful for those who emailed iriver if they confuse their faulty battery with the sleep mode issue. There is no such thing as a firmware update that capable of reviving a dead battery.

Goodgot001 · #83 (**permalink**) January 28th, 2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachinkoman

For all the time you've spent agonizing over it, you might have been able to actually do something about it

Ha ha... no comment...

Quote:

Originally Posted by clieosandclix

@Goodgot001: As much as you don't believe in my calculation and number, I still make the estimation that you have at least 80% (or more) of normal battery life based on the rough timing you provided in your first post (and based on the fact that your music is in high bitrate). You don't have to believe in me, but based on my calculation (and other clix owners who experience the same battery life spend that I have), my number tells me that islandbuoy have >40% of battery life, which strongly suggest a faulty battery that needed to be RMA. It is not a sleep mode issue. It is a hardware problem that can't be fixed by any software means.

If people believe that sleep mode is a problem than they will email iriver as you suggested. However, it won't be useful for those who emailed iriver if they confuse their faulty battery with the sleep mode issue. There is no such thing as a firmware update that capable of reviving a dead battery.

Ok, I agree with you about faulty batteries, but my battery is ok, and for me the sleep mode issue is a big problem, so I asked iriver for a solution about this annoying problem..
I still don't trust in your battery tests, but it's a problem of mine... Probably I'm going to do my own tests in the next future to have a precise indication about the sleep mode power draining...

[EDIT] Please use the "multi" button to reply with multiple quotes. ~clieosandclix

**clieos** · #84 (**permalink**) January 28th, 2007, 07:51 AM

Do as you wish if you see fit.
Just because I got my result, it doesn't mean your clix will behave in the same manner. There are variables (battery age / encoding method / temperature / earphone / etc) between your clix and mine that will never match up. In fact, it is the other users' feedback that confirm my finding, at least in a rough sense.

dh2344 · #85 (**permalink**) January 29th, 2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traut

so they listened to the customers. Maybe they heared what they asked for - but they did not understand.

I got a U10 - and I'd wish, it would start up faster. However, I would not take the drawback of a significant power consumption here.

What's the actual wakeup time for the clix? I remember, bootup was reduced from about 18 seconds to 16 seconds. Right? And wakeup? Instantly?

I don't know the actual battery capacitance and the real numbers. But assuming 800 mAh and 0.56% standby/hour, that's almost 5 mA standby current or 16 mW standby power - too much for a real low power design.

I have to agree - that to claim that the quick start up time is a benefit is quite absurd. By introducing that feature the battery life is clearly being drained hence the volume of queries on this subject (I don't recollect having a problem with my U10) and I would rather wait 20 secs for it to boot up than have to worry about charging all the time. Re the reset and hold feature to ensure that it does power off - I do endorse that but it is becoming apain because you lose all of the quick list playlists and the screen orientation resets -so it is not exactly a solution.

Its a bit like a car manufacturer saying we have introduced a new feature so that you car starts instantly at the press of a button but to achieve this it is always running in the background so your fuel consumption goes out the window! - but it is responding to customer needs.

I thinks it's a shame but I can't imaging Ipod users going through this hassle and that is probably why they are market leaders.

**clieos** · #86 (**permalink**) January 29th, 2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dh2344

... Re the reset and hold feature to ensure that it does power off - I do endorse that but it is becoming apain because you lose all of the quick list playlists and the screen orientation resets -so it is not exactly a solution.

Do notice that even with a new firmware that capable of truely shut down, you will still lost your quick list and orientation. It is the same as the sleep mode vs. shut down on a laptop. You can't get the benefit of both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dh2344

I thinks it's a shame but I can't imaging Ipod users going through this hassle and that is probably why they are market leaders.

The first gen. shuffle hiss problem, the first gen nano easily crack screen, the early short battery life and replacement problem (just to name a few)... they are the market leader doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

dh2344 · #87 (**permalink**) January 29th, 2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clieosandclix

Do notice that even with a new firmware that capable of truely shut down, you will still lost your quick list and orientation. It is the same as the sleep mode vs. shut down on a laptop. You can't get the benefit of both.

The first gen. shuffle hiss problem, the first gen nano easily crack screen, the early short battery life and replacement problem (just to name a few)... they are the market leader doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Thanks - I agree with your points although I dont recollect my u10 losing its screen orientation when I switched it off or other settings for that matter and clearly Apple have had issues. I stick with IRiver because of the audio quality alone which stems back to my h120 and nothing seems to be able to get near them on that front which is the most important aspect of any mp3 player but I just feel that having owned a U10 and now upgrading to a clix - the battery / shut down is a real pain and seems like a bit of a 'cock up' on the design front to me.

Ted Yo! · #88 (**permalink**) January 29th, 2007, 03:23 PM

This topic has been beat to death, but given a couple of recent comments I should probably point something out...

The plays for sure tests imply that a device needs to support sleep mode. There are two different boot time requirements - one for cold boot and another for power on from sleep. If a device does not support sleep it has to pass the lower sleep number on its cold boot. The clix's cold boot time is not fast enough to pass without implementing sleep.

Before going off on a wild "MS trying to control the world" tangent, read that again. Sleep mode is not a requirement. The requirements are darn hard to pass if you don't, but it isn't really 'required'.

If you are really bored on a Friday night sometime, here are the requirements. You may find some others interesting, like how device companies are allowed to support UMS and what they can't do.

Wonderclix! · #89 (**permalink**) January 30th, 2007, 12:32 AM

A simple suggestion- could the sleep time be reduced to perhaps 1-2 hours? Surely this is the best of both worlds.

**clieos** · #90 (**permalink**) January 30th, 2007, 02:27 AM

I will like it to be somewhere on 12 to 16 hrs, or ever better: self-adjustable..

owlyn12345 · #91 (**permalink**) January 30th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Ted,

It looks to me that the Clix meets the spec even under the most extreme condition (fully off):

"It is a mandatory requirement that the time between powering the device on from fully off and it being responsive to user actions be no more than 15 seconds.
It is a mandatory requirement that the time between powering the device on from a standby state and it being responsive to user actions be no more than 5 seconds."

Ted Yo! · #92 (**permalink**) January 30th, 2007, 10:19 AM

Yours must be faster then mine - it takes 11 seconds from full power off (the time starts the instant you press the power button, not when you see the display turn on). Keep in mind that it is an independant test house that does the validation and if you fail, you have to pay again to try again.

iriverclix · #93 (**permalink**) January 30th, 2007, 04:43 PM

Well i posted an e-borad message with Iriver about the battery issue. Here is the reply that i got from them..

" iriver America Response: (01/30/2007 03:36)
Hello Michael,

Our customers have asked for the players to not fully power down so that if they power the player back on, it INSTANTLY shows back up where it left off, and they can pick right back up.

If you would like to fully power the player off yourself, put the “Hold” switch in the On Position, and then use a paper clip to reset the player with the reset located on the bottom of the player. This should fully power the player off.

Best regards,

Bob M. "

I think it's insane, what do you mean just take a paper clip and reset it. You think i have nothing better to do than carry around a paper clip all day with me... It's crazy, and I dont see why it's so difficult to create a firmware update to correct this .. Cause the iriver clix is awsome, and it sucks that this is it's only downfall ..

balllist1c · #94 (**permalink**) January 31st, 2007, 03:10 PM

Yeah i think its a pretty piss weak excuse.

Dont get me wrong i think the clix is great... and the battery life is 'correct' .. but at the end of the day... for me.. with my usage... it is equivelent to a 1995 discman i bought off the streets off china...

it really is a little dissapointing.... and i know iriver can program it to make it easier to do a PROPER shut down without using a paper clip....

the only thing that is a little annoying with full shutdown is that all the settings are lost... but iriver have flash MEMORY on there clix... im sure they can store those settings somewhere in a small 1kb txt file....

I dunno.... it just seems so rectifiable.. yet there support is throwing us reasoning that attempts to place the customer in the wrong for complaining about it.

intogamer92 · #95 (**permalink**) January 31st, 2007, 07:38 PM

very frustrating.. -_-

Ted Yo! · #96 (**permalink**) January 31st, 2007, 08:20 PM

Really? Losing 1 1/2 hours of play time a day (1/15 of your total battery life) means that much to you? Considering virtually every other device designed today works this way? You aren't just reading someone else's opinion and adopting it for your own are you?

You would rather have a ~12 second boot up time (which drains battery by the way) and lose your curent song position then use a low power state?

Don't get me wrong... I do think they the clix's sleep mode draws more then the average implementation does. And I know that there are people who would willingly trade boot time and state information for increased battery life no matter how small. It just seems like there is a lot of "me too" going on without much real thought going into it.

Goodgot001 · #97 (**permalink**) February 1st, 2007, 05:17 AM

My impression is that you all (ted and clieos) just worry about telling there is no kind of problem with the clix... and that it's the perfect player.......

Hey!! Even if I posted this tread I still think that clix is one of the best player ever produced by now (maybe the best)! I am just trying to make iriver fix this annoying thing, in my opinion the only thing that doesn't work well in the wonderful player...

For you that criticise us there won't be any disadvantages if iriver correct the firmware and insert the option to shut down the player instead of turning it to sleep mode!!
So please stop posting about the uselessness of such a correction and SUPPORT US, we find it very useful, and for you there won't be any disadvantages.

**clieos** · #98 (**permalink**) February 1st, 2007, 08:46 AM

Here is the battery life related comments I made in this thread:
Post #60:
Not really. Sleep mode takes only 10% of normal playback mode (unless your clix is different). You should get ~4hrs of playback time everyday for three day before a recharge is needed. That is more than 12hrs playback time in total.

^ I was trying to point out the expected usable time, so users can be sure that they have a good battery.

Post #64:
Yep, your battery seems fine.

^ To point out that dh2344 has a good/not-defected battery.

Post #66:
There is already one thread that did just that (a post in page 3 or 4). Read that whole thread and you will see even some guys from iriver America was posting too.

As far as the issue on short battery life on sleep mode goes, I personally don't think that is a problem, but a mere annoyance/inconvenient. As Jeff had posted previously, the 'problem' has been forwarded to iriver. We should show a little bit more patience for now and see what will happen.

^ I was telling people there is another complaining email thread? I MUST BE CRAZY! Jeff was actually kind enough to even met those Korea iriver guys at CES2007 and told them this issue? He must be crazy like me too!

Post #75:
Do you have a bad battery? Try RMA it first. Surely leaving a review on some websites won't fix your battery for you.

^ Bad battery has nothing to do with sleep mode.

Welcome to the digital edge
(I am pretty sure your radio and stereo don't come with color screen and 200MHz CPU)
If long battery life or replaceable battery is a must, may be the T series is your cup of tea?

^ islandbuoy was comparing battery operated radio with a clix with bad battery.

Do whatever you believe is right. In fact, I left a 'bad' review on GearLive to warn others about the potential issue they might run into.

^ Want to read my 'bad' review i made at GearLive? Here is it. The 2nd comment, 'Posted by clieos on July 27, 2006 at 05:02 PM'.

Post #82:
@Goodgot001: As much as you don't believe in my calculation and number, I still make the estimation that you have at least 80% (or more) of normal battery life based on the rough timing you provided in your first post (and based on the fact that your music is in high bitrate). You don't have to believe in me, but based on my calculation (and other clix owners who experience the same battery life spend that I have), my number tells me that islandbuoy have >40% of battery life, which strongly suggest a faulty battery that needed to be RMA. It is not a sleep mode issue. It is a hardware problem that can't be fixed by any software means.

If people believe that sleep mode is a problem than they will email iriver as you suggested. However, it won't be useful for those who emailed iriver if they confuse their faulty battery with the sleep mode issue. There is no such thing as a firmware update that capable of reviving a dead battery.

^ Repeat: "my number tells me that islandbuoy have >40% of battery life, which strongly suggest a faulty battery that needed to be RMA. It is not a sleep mode issue. It is a hardware problem that can't be fixed by any software means.

If people believe that sleep mode is a problem than they will email iriver as you suggested. However, it won't be useful for those who emailed iriver if they confuse their faulty battery with the sleep mode issue. There is no such thing as a firmware update that capable of reviving a dead battery.".

Post #90:
I will like it to be somewhere on 12 to 16 hrs, or ever better: self-adjustable.

^ And who said I think clix is perfect as the way it is now?

To Goodgot001:
Do you know why I didn't reply/disagree/ban the first day you posted this thread? It was because I actually believe in some of your points! As of why I posted what I've posted? It was because there are users who confused their bad battery with sleeping mode issue!
Just because I didn't post something like 'lets email iriver immediately!' doesn't means I am just worry about telling there is no kind of problem with the clix... and that it's the perfect player.......and it surely didn't give you the right to judge others who happen to disagree with you.

As Ted Yo! has well written in post