What's so hard about using ogg content?

[Ted Yo!]

Okay, I’ve been reading in a few posts that some people think getting ogg content to work inside an application is hard. I have no idea where this perception started but I want to show you just how easy it is. Heck, even my two year old could figure it out...

First you need to install the packages necessary for ogg support on your PC. They are easy to track down, and it’s perfectly clear that you will need both a directshow filter and a separate metadata plugin. I’ll go one step further though, even though it’s plain as day, and give you the links:

Install the OGG directshow filters:
http://www.illiminable.com/ogg/

Install the OGG metadata support plugin:
http://wmptagext.sourceforge.net/


Now that you have the necessary software you need to turn it on. Obviously, how could it work if you didn’t turn it on?

Enable the OGG metadata support plugin:
Right Click on the title bar and go to Tools -> Options
Click on the Plugins tab
Click on Background
Check the box for “WMPTagSupportExtend er Plugin”
Hit OK

If at this point if you do not see the “WMPTagSupportExtend er Plugin”, that is because it doesn’t always register correctly. If this happens to you, just help it along...
Close WMP
Go to Start -> Run
In the run dialog paste the following (assuming the default install location)

Regsvr32 “C:\Program Files\piPOol\WMPTagSupportExtender\WMPTagSupportExtender.dll”

Repeat the “Enable the OGG metadata support plugin” step above.

Right about now you should be asking yourself “Hmmm, I wonder if the people that wrote the ogg filters thought about enabling them for WMDM devices? I bet they didn’t.” Naturally you would leap to the conclusion that they probably forgot to add the WMDM format type to their registration entries, so you should immediately fire up your handy dandy registry editor and fix it for them.


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// EDIT: No longer needed. This has been added to the WMPTagExt plug-in.
//
// Add the OGG registration entry that the authors forgot:
// Go to Start -> Run
// In the run dialog paste the following:
//

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Multimedia\WMPlayer\Extensions\.ogg /v FormatCode /t REG_DWORD /d 47362 /f

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Now that everything is setup, you'll need to recreate your media library (it isn't like WMP would just notice your ogg files).
Click on the down arrow under the library tab.
Add to library...
Add any new folders you need and hit OK.

See it's as simple as falling out of bed. Bob's your uncle. Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about?

[sweetspot]

If your 2 year old can figure that out, let alone read, please PM me, as I'd like to be his/her agent ! Oh the riches we can reap !!

Seriously though, if that is what you call simple, you may want to take a look around the net and do a re-take of some of the people using said DAP. The every day, average Joe would most likely be at a loss here, and while most MR members or other tech forum members migh be saavy enough to grasp the material, I think that it's pretty irresponsible for any manufacturer to leave it to the consumer to put all the pieces together, rather than have it be ready to go in all aspects, straight out of the box.

It's good of you to post what you did though, and perhaps the material should be stickied in its own thread. Let's first see if those who are having the problem, find this solution to be an easy one, and perhaps we can simplify things even more for non techies.

Doug

[_kuroyume_]

so, this mean that, against what previous reports said you can, in fact, properly sync ogg's to the clix? with tags and album art?

if so, w00t! the clix is back to #1 candidate for purchase...

[musichound]

Hey, thank you for supplying this information.

Wow, your two year old must be very intelligient. You better save up some money because he/she will be ready for college real soon.

[Ted Yo!]

@_kuroyume_ Yes, this will allow it to work with full tag and album art support through WMP11. But as you can tell you do need to jump through a few hoops to get it going.

@Sweet Spot
I was trying for my sarcasm to be so over the top that no one could take me seriously. Obviously I failed. I don't think it's simple and I was actually suprised at how hard it was - no average user would ever figure it out (I would almost go so far as to say that no one outside the industry could). The last bit about the format code is really the only new information. It took me three hours in a debugger to figure it out. I found out fairly quickly that the format code was getting set to undefined, but the rest of the time was spend tracking down where it happened and why. You can imagine how happy I was to discover that it could be fix by a simple registry override.

As to a sticky, I really didn't write this to be a true guide. However it may be worth a FAQ entry (@clieosandclix ?) if you simplify it as:
Install the OGG directshow filters.

Install the extended (OGG) metadata support plugin.

Add the format code registry override by:
Go to Start -> Run
In the run dialog paste the following:

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Multimedia\WMPlayer\Extensions\.ogg /v FormatCode /t REG_DWORD /d 47362 /f

You could always walk someone through reg edit, but I find that just telling them to copy and paste things makes it easier and less error prone.

I also think that someone should report a "bug" to the wmp tag ext project on source forge and see if they can't get them to add this entry during their setup. Doing so would take away the most challening part of all this.

Next I'll try looking at Media Monkey and see what I can find. They may have the same problem, but it will be a lot more difficult to debug since they don't publish their symbols like WMP does. If I can find it I'll mail the WMDM plugin writers and try to get them to fix it.

[owlyn12345]

Now you tell me. After I re-ripped my entire library... I'll give it a btry when i get home. I would love to switch back to ogg. Better quality sound and smaller file size.

[sweetspot]

Good job Ted. And for the record, I DID get your sarcasm. Did you really think that I wanted to be your kids' agent ?!

[FranzLiebkind.]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but whats better about ogg compared to mp3 for the casual music listener?

[crazyman9916]

Thank you..Ted Yo!

I can sync ogg tag.. but.. can't view album art..

ogg file can't view album art?

[Ted Yo!]

I got album art to work last night, but that may have been because I was setting most of the properties by hand. If the WMPTagEx plugin isn't retreiving all of the needed data or if the file itself doesn't have it, I think the album object will be rejected (layman's terms: no album art). I'll look at it tonight when I get home.

Note: If this is true, you probably can't get the ogg content into playlists either.

[owlyn12345]

Originally Posted by FranzLiebkind.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but whats better about ogg compared to mp3 for the casual music listener?

Ogg files will give you a better quality at a given file size. For example, my .ogg files would run about 1/3 smaller than mp3 for a particular sound quality. For example, and 90 ogg would give the same quality as a 128 mp3. So, you can either get more stuff on your device, or the same amount with a better sound.

[Ted Yo!]

Sadly you are correct. Only metadata, no album art. I could tell you how to get album art onto it manually but it would be several steps for each file (not worth the trouble).

I looked into Media Monkey and their debug version didn't give any real helpful hints. I sent a mail to the developers with all the information I know along with some speculation as to what is happening. With any luck they'll fix it and then MM will be your best chance of getting both metadata and album art in one shot.

(Still, getting full metadata for ogg files is better then a kick in the pants.)

Ogg files will give you a better quality at a given file size. For example, my .ogg files would run about 1/3 smaller than mp3 for a particular sound quality. For example, and 90 ogg would give the same quality as a 128 mp3. So, you can either get more stuff on your device, or the same amount with a better sound.

The only caution I would add to this is that ogg files will drain your battery faster then mp3 (even faster then wma) so unless you prefer the audio quality you are just trading space for play time.

[musichound]

Originally Posted by Ted Yo!

@Sweet Spot
I was trying for my sarcasm to be so over the top that no one could take me seriously.

Yeah, right!!

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot

Good job Ted. And for the record, I DID get your sarcasm.

Yeah, right!!

[clieos]

Ted Yo!:

This is very useful for those who really like to play with ogg. I will put this in the FAQ. Thanks for the great info.

[francishsu]

Just wanted to add my thanks for the information. Though it was not to iRiver's credit, but instead your information, that I can now sync Ogg files using WMP11, it does make me feel better about the Clix purchase. Hopefully, album art will be supported eventually.

[owlyn12345]

Ted,

For some reason, I cannot sync ogg files to my Clix. tried WMP11 (after installing your mods) and MediaMonkey. WMP shows everything properly (ogg is checked as one of the formats in WMP11). In WMP11, when I go to sync, i get an error (your device may not support this file type). MM just blinks at me- no error, but no transfer. The filesd play in WMP11, so I think it should be okay...

[Ted Yo!]

@francishsu In my opinion it is due to the fact that WMP doesn't support ogg natively. Further more, it wasn't even defined as a format for WMDM until WMP11 so it would have been difficult for anyone else to support it.

@owlyn12345 That is the behavior that the registry overide should fix. Rather then pasting the string into the run line, use the command prompt. This way you can see if the reg command is returning any errors. If I were to guess I'd say that part of the string got cut off and so the registry update failed.

[owlyn12345]

Ted,

I ran

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Micros oft\Multimedia\WMPla yer\Extensions\.ogg /v FormatCode /t REG_DWORD /d 47362 /f

on the command line, and it completed successfully, but I still have the same s(t)yncing problem. (The extra spaces were inserted by this web site, the actual command was correct.)

The entries in the registry itself look correct:

Key Name: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\S OFTWARE\Microsoft\Mu ltimedia\WMPlayer\Ex tensions\.ogg
Class Name: <NO CLASS>
Last Write Time: 12/9/2006 - 11:43 AM
Value 0
Name: Permissions
Type: REG_DWORD
Data: 0xf

Value 1
Name: Shell.AltVerb.Cmd
Type: REG_SZ
Data: /prefetch:6 /Play "%L"

Value 2
Name: Shell.Open
Type: REG_SZ
Data: /prefetch:6 /Open "%L"

Value 3
Name: MediaType.Icon
Type: REG_SZ
Data: quartz.dll,-203

Value 4
Name: ReplaceApps
Type: REG_SZ
Data: mplayer2.exe|amovie. ocx

Value 5
Name: SuperiorApps
Type: REG_SZ
Data: wmplayer.exe

Value 6
Name: Runtime
Type: REG_DWORD
Data: 0x7

Value 7
Name: PerceivedType
Type: REG_SZ
Data: audio

Value 8
Name: AlreadyRegistered
Type: REG_SZ
Data: yes

Value 9
Name: MediaType.Descriptio n
Type: REG_SZ
Data: Ogg File

Value 10
Name: Extension.MIME
Type: REG_SZ
Data: application/ogg

Value 11
Name: FormatCode
Type: REG_DWORD
Data: 0xb902

Value 12
Name: UserApprovedOwning
Type: REG_SZ
Data: yes

Any other ideas?

[Ted Yo!]

That's all correct. Are you running the latest clix firmware? Unfortunatly there is no log created for the failure case so it's quite hard to troubleshoot remotly.

When I was trying this out myself I did have a problem with one of the "latest version"s and had to use a "latest stable" build, although I don't remember if it was the ogg filter or the tag extensions.

[owlyn12345]

Ted,

Yes, running 2.01 firmware, the latest WMP11 and I am using the latest stable build of the ogg codec.