iriver vs others

[Makaveli]

ipod got a clearer raodmap with higher compatibility (you need different chargers : This one from a H10 can't be used for a U10, this one for a U10 not for a clix, this one for a clix not for a clix2, ... H10/U10/clix2 got different cradles,...)

Its called progression i guess. Would you rather we still be using a power cable to charge our clix's (like back with the h100s). Now its taken its time, but we've moved to the point where we just have the one readily available USB cable. Its a step forward, you cant really complain that much.

[Step666]

Yeah, progression like going back to thinking the world is flat


It is possible to have a device that can charge via USB but can also take a charger (like my H340 or my Nano).
It is also possible to have a standardised charger across your whole range (like the iPods).

Limiting the consumer to only charging via USB is definitely not progress, nor is forcing them to buy different USB cables or chargers if they ever buy a different player. Both of which are exactly what iRiver have been up to...

[garryg]

i have an old ipod. now i keep it for some people who would want to buy it from me. ipod is worst with itunes. and i hate both programs.

iriver just drag and drop my music to my friend`s pc and i can share and also get a copy from my friends music files. best is sound, it rocksssss

[Makaveli]

Originally Posted by Step666

Yeah, progression like going back to thinking the world is flat


It is possible to have a device that can charge via USB but can also take a charger (like my H340 or my Nano).
It is also possible to have a standardised charger across your whole range (like the iPods).

Limiting the consumer to only charging via USB is definitely not progress, nor is forcing them to buy different USB cables or chargers if they ever buy a different player. Both of which are exactly what iRiver have been up to...

Haha, you 100% right and i don't think iRiver has any defence for that wopper (I tried boys , lol)

[BIG-MIKE]

first of all the only thing i can see as being better on an ipod equal to my H340 is the screen & maybe the design. All the rest is naff compaired take itunes for example its the most annoying program ive ever dealt with, fine if your lazy & simply just want to put music on automatically but what if you dont? very annoying when you aren't in control for me. secondly i don't like the wheel, not my cup of tea although i think the idea is quite good, reckon it could be improved. My reason for loving iriver so much is the sound quality ipod's have such a terrible equilizer i don't kow how people can keep those crappy ipoo phones in their ears all day. Hardly listening to music if you ask me just a big ditorted high pitched mess. I think irive ris way better for features, personality, quality & price also its alot easier & cheaper to repair.
I used to like ipods
until i found iriver
& saw how much of a rip off they really are

[RLD_Brooklyn]

Here is my opinion of this topic. Btw, what I am about to say is from my own personal experience and I am not anti-apple (I support an office that is predominantly Macs)

iPods are very user friendly, very stylish and there are a ton of accessories,
but, the people in my office who own iPods have had to return them at least once. I had to return one persons iPod 4 times (I have the paperwork to prove it, bad hard drives mostly). I had one that the owner decided it wasn't worth returning because of a bad hard drive, so I used the battery from that in an iPod whose battery was no longer working. Battery problems are universal, so I can't fault apple for that. I just replaced the battery in my H340. I also tried replacing a drive in an iPod (a toshiba model), but the iPod refused to take it. Which leads me to a beef I have with apple, It seems you can't use standard replacement parts in their products. (Except hard drives in their computers).

iPods seem to be more fragile. I have had my H340 for almost 2 years now and I have dropped it several times. Half of those while the player was running and I just pick it up and go. The last drop however, did damage to the drive. I couldn't add anything new to the player, but it still played my songs. I ended up replacing that drive, (with the one that would not work in the iPod), but I am looking for an 80 GB model.

The reason I bought the H340 was because I previously owned an iRiver mp3 cd player and I loved it. It was the iriver slimx 550. The sound was great and the lcd remote was excellent. I could control all settings of the player from the remote. (I also just ordered the h300 lcd remote http://www.misticriver.net/boards/im...on_mrgreen.gif
) My musical tastes lean toward hip-hop and R&B (old and new) so the iriver h340 will always, imo, beat any ipod. Before I bought the h340, I bought an ipod and took it back after 2 days because I got better sound out of my pda. No eq settings on the ipod helped it out. Hip-hop, motown, reggae, alternative rock, hard rock, metal all sound better to me on my iriver.
Even with the $10 sony headphones I had at the time. (I now have some Shure e4c's) The iPod headphones are not the problem as I have tried them out on my H340. I read reviews on the ipods and a lot of times the reviewer says the first thing you should do is dump the included ear buds and get a good set of headphones. If you just spent $300-$400 on a player it should sound good out of the box. Most people I know already have some headphones they like, but if you don't know any better, someone telling you to spend another hundred dollars seems like an insult, imo. The h340 also has features built in that you have to pay extra for with an ipod. FM tuner, voice, line-in and off-air recording. Picture viewing (before ipod photo) and a gimmicky one in text viewing. Some people where I work bought a voice recording attachment that locks up the ipod. That is BS. Not the fault of Apple, but still messed up.

Bottom line, if a player sounds good with the music you listen to, get it. It happens that that player for me was the h340.

[DD]

Originally Posted by RLD_Brooklyn

iPods seem to be more fragile. I have had my H340 for almost 2 years now and I have dropped it several times. Half of those while the player was running and I just pick it up and go.

Could that be to do with the lack of padding in iPods? I've never opened a 5g, but I'm guessing from how thin it is I would guess there is very little/no padding around the drive, whereas on the chunky H3xx there is plentiful amounts of that blue padding (which we are always warned will increase the risk of drive damage if removed). Good point?

[Step666]

When I read that originally, it crossed my mind too.
But, equally, given the massive number of iPods sold, it can't be that big an issue or they'd address it - even Apple can't afford to have to replace the HDD in every iPod.

Originally Posted by RLD_Brooklyn

The iPod headphones are not the problem as I have tried them out on my H340. I read reviews on the ipods and a lot of times the reviewer says the first thing you should do is dump the included ear buds and get a good set of headphones. If you just spent $300-$400 on a player it should sound good out of the box. Most people I know already have some headphones they like, but if you don't know any better, someone telling you to spend another hundred dollars seems like an insult, imo.

I disagree with this bit though.
You're paying for the DAP not the headphones - the stock 'phones are thrown in to stop people complaining, they're not meant to be all that.

Also, I would say that the comments about the poor sound quality of iPods are somewhat out-dated now.
Whilst, yes, the older models sounded poor, the new ones are pretty damned good.

[RLD_Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by DD

Could that be to do with the lack of padding in iPods? I've never opened a 5g, but I'm guessing from how thin it is I would guess there is very little/no padding around the drive, whereas on the chunky H3xx there is plentiful amounts of that blue padding (which we are always warned will increase the risk of drive damage if removed). Good point?

Honestly, I have not opened an iPod since the iPod Photo, and I don't remember what kind of padding was in there. I doubt anyone would let me dissect there video/5G iPod, so I might never know. I think part of the problem is that people don't realize that hard drive based iPods (or any other DAP) actually have hard drives in them. They carry them around, drop them in pockets and bags, and generally abuse them I saw one guy walking around with his ipod clipped to the outside of his back pocket, bopping about as he walked. I had a feeling he sent his in for repair shortly after.

[RLD_Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Step666

When I read that originally, it crossed my mind too.
But, equally, given the massive number of iPods sold, it can't be that big an issue or they'd address it - even Apple can't afford to have to replace the HDD in every iPod.



I disagree with this bit though.
You're paying for the DAP not the headphones - the stock 'phones are thrown in to stop people complaining, they're not meant to be all that.

Also, I would say that the comments about the poor sound quality of iPods are somewhat out-dated now.
Whilst, yes, the older models sounded poor, the new ones are pretty damned good.

I think that they do replace those hard drives. For instance. Most of the time when I receive and iPod that was sent out for repair, the serial number is different. Now, I figure those are either refurbished units that they got from the service dept or they are from retail returns. Refurbished doesn't necessarily mean that the HDD went bad, though, so maybe not all the drives were replaced. And does switching the serial number mean that if you bought an applecare warranty, is that warranty no longer valid because the serial number is different?

As for the sound quality, the last iPod I listened too was an original nano 4GB and the sound was still weak, imo. That may have been fixed with the video/5G ipod. I will try to find someone with a video ipod and do a listening test with the same tracks and my e4c's on both DAPs. But, I am into music that is bass heavy, and the full bass and treble eq setting on ipods is, imo, not as good as the H340 and its 24 bass levels. And the ipod earbuds, when I tried them a while ago, sounded as good as the $10 Sony earbuds I used to own, which were pretty good for $10 US. If those Sony's broke and I had a pair of ipod buds on hand, I would use those.

One more thing I love about my H340: I don't need any software to transfer music or other files. I plug it in and drag and drop. Most normal folk need help form software to move their music onto their DAPs, but I want more direct control than that. Between my work and my home computer (and any other computer with music on it) I don't want to have to install software and lose the pairing with the previous computer. Also the file format support is good. I've been using ogg lately.

Thanks for the Replies

[Step666]

Originally Posted by RLD_Brooklyn

I think that they do replace those hard drives. For instance. Most of the time when I receive and iPod that was sent out for repair, the serial number is different. Now, I figure those are either refurbished units that they got from the service dept or they are from retail returns. Refurbished doesn't necessarily mean that the HDD went bad, though, so maybe not all the drives were replaced. And does switching the serial number mean that if you bought an applecare warranty, is that warranty no longer valid because the serial number is different?

No, you've completely missed my point.
I wasn't talking about the iPods you've dealt with, I was talking in general - Apple couldn't afford to have to replace every iPod ever, could they? So there must be some sort of padding, or something that stops them all from giving out.

Originally Posted by RLD_Brooklyn

As for the sound quality, the last iPod I listened too was an original nano 4GB and the sound was still weak, imo. That may have been fixed with the video/5G ipod. I will try to find someone with a video ipod and do a listening test with the same tracks and my e4c's on both DAPs. But, I am into music that is bass heavy, and the full bass and treble eq setting on ipods is, imo, not as good as the H340 and its 24 bass levels. And the ipod earbuds, when I tried them a while ago, sounded as good as the $10 Sony earbuds I used to own, which were pretty good for $10 US. If those Sony's broke and I had a pair of ipod buds on hand, I would use those.

Well, there's a few of us now own some of the new iPods and no-one complained about the sound quality.
Then again, I don't use the EQ anyway - all that does is screw up the music IMO. If the song was recorded with a certain amount of bass, then that's all the bass you need to hear, if you have some weird urge to listen to the song with twice as much bass, well then you aren't really appreciating the music for what it is - at least, that's how I look at it.

[hvacigar]

Originally Posted by Shaneeckel

Why Iriver and not Ipod?

Well, I do not own an iriver yet (waiting for the clix 2), I do have much experience with several other players I own (including an ipod 5th Gen, 8GB Nano, shuffle 2.0). Each serve their purpose, but to be honest, I am really looking for a player that supplements music playing with casual video watching in a small package (and in a flash player for battery life issues). At this point, the clix 2 is a fantastic combination of beauty, functionality and power saving features. If iriver pulls this off right, they will OWN the market in a segment where Apple currently does not exist. The Sansa players from Sandisk are good in this market, but the clix 2 looks extremely competitive. When I get mine, I will do a review of how it stacks up against my other players.

Features offered by the clix 2 that stand out to me are
AMOLED (not just beautiful, but power saving as well)
same size as the Sansa R200 series, but a larger screen and lighter by specs
good capacity for a flash player
probably the best interface on the market behind apple

what I would like to see though is the ability to use micro SD like the sansa players...also to be able to put vids on these micro SD (the sansa does not allow this...only music). I guess I can dream.

[Step666]

Or you could go for a W10 - 8GB, 3" widescreen, flash, Micro SD slot. It also sports Wi-Fi and, IIRC, GPS.
It lacks the AMOLED screen though, it's just a standard LCD and there's no word on battery life yet.

There's more info here.


edit: sorry, it's a Mini SD slot, not a Micro one.

It's the X20 (again, 2, 4 or 8GB, 2.2" LCD screen, video support) that has Micro SD.

[RLD_Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Step666

No, you've completely missed my point.
I wasn't talking about the iPods you've dealt with, I was talking in general - Apple couldn't afford to have to replace every iPod ever, could they? So there must be some sort of padding, or something that stops them all from giving out.




Well, there's a few of us now own some of the new iPods and no-one complained about the sound quality.
Then again, I don't use the EQ anyway - all that does is screw up the music IMO. If the song was recorded with a certain amount of bass, then that's all the bass you need to hear, if you have some weird urge to listen to the song with twice as much bass, well then you aren't really appreciating the music for what it is - at least, that's how I look at it.

I agree with your first point, I was just speaking from my personal experience. As to the second point, it depends on what you are listening to. I mostly listen to Hip-Hop, and most Hip-Hop songs have a lot of bass. What I want to do is replicate my listening experience at home when I am not at home. So I want my portable player to sound as good as my home speakers. You may be right in that I am not appreciating the music for what it is, but I tend to put music on while I am commuting and let my mind wander, or I'll use it to drown out the sounds of the subway while I am reading, or I will listen intently to what the artist is saying. It depends on my state of mind at the moment. The last line of my original post:

Bottom line, if a player sounds good with the music you listen to, get it. It happens that that player for me was the h340.

All I am saying is, do what is best for you. It may be weird to you to have a lot of bass in your music, but it is what I prefer. Lil Jon or Ludacris with no bass is not the same music. I know I would not have been satisfied with an ipod. Before I got my H340, I bought an ipod. I wanted to like it, but it did not have the sound I wanted, so I took it back to the store. It is my personal preference. That may have changed with the latest iPods, I still have not had the opportunity to try out the latest yet. I have to hunt one down and check it out. I am open to the possibility, I just need to hear for myself.

[Step666]

Well, the bass roll-off issues definitely don't affect the new iPods, they're very much a thing of the past.

As for the bass, well I still stand by my comments about EQs - I don't use them because the music wasn't meant to be listened to with extra bass or boosted mid-ranges or whatever.
If you find your headphones aren't giving you as much bass as your home speakers, then either there's a problem with your headphones or you've got your bass turned up on your speakers.
Also, what happens is some of your songs suit a bit of tweaking but others don't, surely it just becomes a hassle having to keep fiddling with the EQ?

I'm not arguing for the sake of it, I just don't get why people feel the need to play with EQ settings - if you don't like the music the way it was recorded, why are you listening to it?

[musichound]

It may be weird to you to have a lot of bass in your music, but it is what I prefer.

If you need more bass all you need to do is get a set of headphones that delivers more bass. For the most part, the EQ in most DAPs distort the music. 'Nuff said.

[hvacigar]

not trying to be adversarial, but a speaker (headphone, quad, computer speaker, or whatever) is an equalizer that has no built in variability other than volume and the mechanical limitations of the vibration mechanism (most of the time a cone). using an equalizer is not indifferent to stuffing a shirt into the speaker area, or plugging/adding vent holes. Never will you have the experience the performer intended unless you are listening to the performer play, or you have the exact same setup as the system used to mix down the music (barring no compression or translation happened along the way from mixing board to media...which always happens with CDs).

Come to think of it...on an even higher level, the human ear is a receptor of sound vibrations, acting as a translator of vibration to electrical signal. Technically, it will also influence the way the music is interpreted.

[RLD_Brooklyn]

Step666, I tend to keep the EQ set one way. It just enhances all music for me, hip-hop, reggae, hard rock, soul, metal. From Linkin Park to Beethovens Moonlight Sonata to Norah Jones to the Brand New Heavies, to Anthony Hamilton, it just sounds better to me with my particular setup.

MusicHound, I have the Shure E3c and E4c, they both sound great, although I prefer the E4cs. So it is not a matter of headphones for me. I had some $10 Sony earbuds and they suited me fine until my brother put me on to the Shure earbuds. I can now listen at a lower volume in louder places and I hear parts of the music I never heard with the Sony buds, even with the weird bass levels

Hvacigar, I never thought about speakers being eqs, thanks for the insight. And I am sure we can all agree that we will never hear the music the way the artist intended unless we are at a live performance.

[s.zhao2891]

Originally Posted by hvacigar

Features offered by the clix 2 that stand out to me are
AMOLED (not just beautiful, but power saving as well)
same size as the Sansa R200 series, but a larger screen and lighter by specs
good capacity for a flash player
probably the best interface on the market behind apple

I really don't know about Apple having the best interface, I currently own the 30gb iPod Video and I have to say the click wheel is more of a hassle than a blessing. I don't think it's anywhere near what it's hyped to be. The UI is nice but the Clix has a great UI too so not much to be said there. Back to the click wheel, everyone talks about being easy to scroll through tons of songs with it. Honestly, I'd much rather press and hold than keep rotating my thumb for 30 seconds only to land 50 songs ahead or after it and having to go slowly to land the right one. Tactile controls are better IMO and the Clix makes it attractive I say Clix has a better interface.