iRiver stupid?

[zaxios]

iRiver's H10 strategy is a highly stupid one, and this is becoming more and more and more obvious to me.

iRiver's main error is that H10 has become, it seems, their sole HDD player. The H300 is reportedly discontinued and increasingly difficult to buy. As no new 20GB or 40GB players have been released yet replace the H320 or H340. iRiver simply do not have a 20GB or 40GB player. It just has a 5GB player, and if a potential customer wants a bigger player, they just can't buy from iRiver. Quite simply, no other major digital audio player company I'm aware of has followed a strategy so recklessly single-minded. The mini HDD market is not the only part of the HDD DAP market, yet iRiver has abandoned the rest of the market in pursuit of it.

As the H10 has replaced the H300 as iRiver's flagship player, iRiver have stopped leading technologically in digital audio players. The H10 does not have USBOTG or Ogg Vorbis support, and gone with them is the feature-focus that made iRiver appealing to its present customer base. For a marginal company, squandering a niche is a bad idea.

iRiver products always lacked polish, but were rich in fundamental features. Now this is gone, and the issues with the H10 are particularly ugly. Most regrettably, by releasing such an uninnovative product - whose only advantage of competing mini players is a colour screen used just for photos - iRiver have actually fallen behind Apple. The new iPod Mini retails for US$250 (US$30 less than the H10) and has a 6GB drive and an 18 hour battery life.

And now iRiver don't have their niche to fall back on.

[whtmakaveli]

im sure they will eventually release a larger HDD player. the thing is, what else could it include? i think it would be just like the h300s but including a lot more video support, which actually turns off some people from buying it. they figure they did all they can with MP3, and next is basically a jump to PMP status.

[reddshack]

Well, let's just hope they pull it all together then, right ?

[andrewmel]

i see no reason to believe that the h3xx has been discontinued besides internet speculation. and we all know the value of that.... read the many threads here saying that video would never work on the h3xx, because iriver would never cut into their pmp profits, or because it wasnt equipt.

a

[hypnotic monkey]

lets face it andrewmel, the H10 shows Iriver as a shadow of its former self. just look at how many threads are devoted to H10 problems with firmware and the shoddy excuse of a player they exported to America.

ALL of the credentials which first attracted me to an Iriver player are GONE.
being:
Ogg vorbis playback
Line in/out (optical in the cse of the H100)
fully finctional LCD remote
Large storage capacity
audiophile-ish sound (H10 bass problems anyone?)

the only thing still present in the H10 i require is the radio. heck, you cant even use the thing as a mass storage device in US.

I might have to jump ship to Iaudio if the H20 / 40 models are just as dissapointing

[andrewmel]

as i see it, iriver have some great flash players, great 20 and 40 gb hd players (h3xx) and a 5 gb hd player with some teething problems. the hardware looks good, but they went for small size, and rightly sacrificed function.

you dont see anybody complaining about the lack of usbotg or video on the flash players do you? no, because they is not what they are aimed at.

we will see what happens with the 20 and 40 gb versions of the h10. given that the h10 cant play ogg because of lack of processor power, it will be surprised if they stick with that processor when they release the 20 and 40gb versions.

a

[hypnotic monkey]

yes I'd be surprised, but i wouldnt put it past Iriver. (not changing chipset)

Yes I know the H10 was never going to satisfy my needs, but it doesnt bode well for future models H20 H40 etc does it?

I mean, just look at the cowon Iaudio M5, i doubt the specs of the H20 and H40 will be beefed up to those! but hope so

[andrewmel]

the x5 has the same specs as the h3xx, which i already have. i am not upgrading until there is a worthwhile improvement.

but given irivers track record, i will be surprised if the h20 and h40 are not the best out there. but jeff has said that they (iirc) wont be released this year. cant see iriver stopping production of the h3xx in that time.

a

[hypnotic monkey]

well I'd say that while the X5 has the only slightly better specs than the H300, Iaudio pulls it off alot more stylishly (thinner body, probably easier navigation) and will liklely have a far greater battery life then the H300, which while advertising 16 hours not take into account the likely usage of the product (andrewmel, you of all people know this) whereas if the M3 advertises 30 hours, then id imagine it can run for more than 16 hours. FLAC is also a great thing to have, and you can customise your logos without voiding warrenties etc. but yes, Iriver will hopefully come through for us.

[andrewmel]

yeah, had forgotten about the battery life. the x5 is the only other product i would consider at the moment, and it hasnt even been released.

goes to show that the iriver is, what, 8 months ahead, unless you consider the ipod photo competition, which i guess it is.... just not with the features i want.

a

[1121]

LIke andrewmel said, nobody knows whether iRiver has really stopped production of the H300 series. It is a possibility that iRiver could've reduced production numbers to focus on the H10 market but stopped production is a great exaggeration at this point.

Also, we do not know what iRiver has under their sleeve (or what kind of stupid plans) they have as iRiver has stopped their traditional "road maps" that previewed the upcoming new products for the year.

The thing with the M5/X5 is that it's essentially the same features if not improved as the H300. Basically they're a bit behind in terms of releases and so on. If the M5/X5 wasn't the same or better than the H300, that would be pretty sad as iAudio had more than a year to get things right. For now, it seems there isn't one single working model yet to show off, not even a rumored beta testing in Korea... it seems iAudio is planning to get a working model at CeBit though, so high hopes there. But I really hope that the H20/H40 DO NOT use the same chipset otherwise, yes, it woudl be the end of iRiver's greatness it has been enjoying over the past few years.

But you have to understand that it is only inevitable that growing companies drop their niche markets in an attempt to expand their company to other markets of potential, where basically iRiver is tryign to appeal to the mass market.

[sweetspot]

GONE.
being:
Ogg vorbis playback
Line in/out (optical in the cse of the H100)
fully finctional LCD remote
Large storage capacity
audiophile-ish sound (H10 bass problems anyone?)

Wow, that pretty much sounds just like a..Naaaa, couldn't be. Wait..it is! iPoo clone with less storage space ! Ruuun GaaAAAaaa !

Ok, all jokes aside, (not that I was really joking), I have to actually sympathize with zaxios. It's very frustrating to watch the degredation of a product in real time. I see what he sees too, but I'm not as pessimistic about how the end results will wind up. iRiver actually have no choice but to dig themselves up out of the currently shallow grave they've dug (themselves into), because if they don't, they'll not only remain without the market they've been after, but they'll also lose loyal customers too. So in a way, you almost HAVE to believe that they've got something good up their sleeves.

*packs virtual bags just in case*

[Mike]

SS, I hope you're right; unfortunately, with the deletion of features over time rather than simply the addition of the new (iHP-1xx -> H3xx -> H10), one wonders if the managers have a plan, or simply are knee-jerking. Plans and product lines/evolution seem to work well for that fruit company.

[hypnotic monkey]

The fact that Iaudio are behind in terms of release of the M5/X5 is irrelevent.

the fact that they are still developing players that suit the more "niche" market (us) as you put it is to be noted, and respected. The X5 is likely to better the H300 in most respects which is also something important to consider. so when i eventually upgrade my player, i will be thinking something along the lines of

"The X5 is a new player, with features similar and better than the H300, is still/and will be for the forseable future supported by Iaudio"

not:

"the X5 is better, but ill get the H300 because Iriver did it first."

Originally Posted by 1121

But you have to understand that it is only inevitable that growing companies drop their niche markets in an attempt to expand their company to other markets of potential, where basically iRiver is trying to appeal to the mass market.

yes Im aware of the fact Iriver is trying to appeal to the mass market, and that is fine! but that doesnt mean i have to follow them blindly like a sheep, i will choose whichever company offers me the best player.

[Mike]

One wonders what the issue is with Cowon and why the player still has not come out. A concern is that when it finally does, it will quickly be outdated by other advancements (such as larger HDD storage).

[1121]

True true. But there should be no worries about being "outdated" because iAudio is very well known for constant support and firmware updates for ALL their models (which isn't much btw).

The thing is, the X5 isn't adding any NEW features but just improving upon previous ones ... that's why it will be quickly "outdated" by newer models by other companies but at least it won't be "discontinued" of support and updates.

EDIT: btw Sweet Spot (below), iAudio's products are extremely well known for basically the first few weeks upon release of a new player as "beta-testing" due to the immense number of bugs... however, they do solve nearly all of the problems in due time with firmware upgrades. Does history repeat itself?

[sweetspot]

Originally Posted by Mike

One wonders what the issue is with Cowon and why the player still has not come out. A concern is that when it finally does, it will quickly be outdated by other advancements (such as larger HDD storage).

Err... I hate to state an obvious and presumptuous answer, but how about, because they want to make sure it's as bug free and fully functional as possible for the release ? God knows that iRiver should be adapting such methods.

[zaxios]

Originally Posted by andrewmel

as i see it, iriver have some great flash players, great 20 and 40 gb hd players (h3xx) and a 5 gb hd player with some teething problems

I clicked on "Other Products" on the iRiver Europe site, and got this
http://www.iriver.com/html/product/pr_index.asp

The PMP ("Video"). The H10 ("Music"). That's it.

The H300 may still be in production. It may not be. It doesn't actually matter, because the irrefutable fact is that they're no longer part of iRiver's strategy. In fact, iRiver's strategy has no 20GB or 40GB player at this time. This is monumentally stupid.

iRiver could learn something from Apple, which, when it released the iPod Photo, kept the rest of their product line well-distributed and available. It's called an attention span.

you dont see anybody complaining about the lack of usbotg or video on the flash players do you? no, because they is not what they are aimed at

What are they aimed at, then? I can't think of single compelling to reason to buy the H10 over other mini players. It doesn't seem to have any advantage whatsoever.

Oh, that's right. The colour screen. Which doesn't support album art.

Originally Posted by hypnotic monkey

lets face it andrewmel, the H10 shows Iriver as a shadow of its former self. just look at how many threads are devoted to H10 problems with firmware and the shoddy excuse of a player they exported to America.

ALL of the credentials which first attracted me to an Iriver player are GONE.
being:
Ogg vorbis playback
Line in/out (optical in the cse of the H100)
fully finctional LCD remote
Large storage capacity
audiophile-ish sound (H10 bass problems anyone?)

the only thing still present in the H10 i require is the radio. heck, you cant even use the thing as a mass storage device in US.

Very well put.

[zaxios]

Originally Posted by andrewmel

goes to show that the iriver is, what, 8 months ahead

No, it shows that they're about to be behind.

Maybe iRiver will pull its act together. Until then, I think it deserves to get slaughtered in the HDD player market - by iAudio in the fussy niche; by Apple and Creative in the mainstream. Asia is probably the only place they'll do well.

[andrewmel]

post here somewhere today quoting iriver saying that the h3xx is still in production.

flash players, best in the market?

so you have the h10, less features and capacity, but small, best mini if bugs ironed out?

the h3xx, top of the market.

pmp, brick like video player.

as far as i can see iriver are on top of the market in all areas. looks good to me. the others are just starting to catch up. if i river release the next batch that are the same leap ahead early next year then they will be far ahead again.

dont get me wrong. if ipod have the best dap for me when its time to upgrade i will buy it. i am not an iriver fanboy.

a

[zaxios]

[quote=andrewmel]post here somewhere today quoting iriver saying that the h3xx is still in production.[/QUOTE=andrewmel]

Originally Posted by zaxios

I clicked on "Other Products" on the iRiver Europe site, and got this
http://www.iriver.com/html/product/pr_index.asp

The PMP ("Video"). The H10 ("Music"). That's it.The H300 may still be in production. It may not be. It doesn't actually matter, because the irrefutable fact is that they're no longer part of iRiver's strategy. In fact, iRiver's strategy has no 20GB or 40GB player at this time. This is monumentally stupid.

--------

Originally Posted by andrewmel

so you have the h10, less features and capacity, but small, best mini if bugs ironed out?

Originally Posted by zaxios

The new iPod Mini retails for US$250 (US$30 less than the H10) and has a 6GB drive and an 18 hour battery life.

--------

Originally Posted by andrewmel

as far as i can see iriver are on top of the market in all areas

Not in sales, which is usually what that statement means.

Did you mean in features, in "quality"? I personally would agree that that would be the H300 for full-size HDD players.

But the PMP is probably not the best video player, and the H10 is definitely not the best mini player. And the H10 is iRiver's flagship product.