Clix2 vs D2

[Kellor]

I was wondering what people's opinions about Clix2 vs D2 was.

In Korea, D2 seems to be winning. People are angry at Clix2's lack of improvement from Clix1 and many bugs. Where D2 releases firmware updates, bug fixes, and all that good stuff.

But here, it seems as though everyone wants to jump the Clix wagon. (ehem, misticIRIVER.net)

I have both D2 and Clix2 shipped on my way and you can expect a review from me soon.

[saints]

There is a d2 thread you may want to look through.
As ive said many times on here the sdhc capacity and battery life won me over I considered both too.
At the end of the day, i cant live without a device that will carry my 25gb of music with me, I hope this time next year a 32gb sd card may be out at a cheapish price

Id be interested in your thoughts on both

[Step666]

Originally Posted by Kellor

But here, it seems as though everyone wants to jump the Clix wagon. (ehem, misticIRIVER.net)

If, by 'here' you mean the US and Europe, maybe you should check out the reviews of the Clix2 - CNet, for example rates the D2 at 8.3 and the Clix2 at 8.7, saying of the Clix2 "If you're looking for an alternative to the iPod Nano, this device should top the list.".
Fairly comprehensive really.

On top of which, whilst the D2 has the likes of a memory card slot and better battery life, it also uses a touch-screen interface, a divisive point to say the least.
Not to mention that they don't even bother producing an 8GB version, which just seems odd.


If, however, by 'here' you mean MR, then well done - you've come to an iRiver fan-site and the people round here are interested in iRiver players.
Startling work Holmes

[jeff]

Both are nice players.

If you need to be able to navigate or use the player in any way without looking at it, you'll have to go with the clix 2 as you're a slave to the D2 since it uses touch screen.

[dUANER]

At the end of the day, i cant live without a device that will carry my 25gb of music with me

If you have an extra $3,500 kicking around you could be at 20GB right now on your D2:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/07/m...eeps-for-sham/

On top of which, whilst the D2 has the likes of a memory card slot and better battery life, it also uses a touch-screen interface, a divisive point to say the least.
Not to mention that they don't even bother producing an 8GB version, which just seems odd.

The touchscreen actually provides a very nice interface. One of the most recent f/w versions gives a notepad feature which works quite well. As for an 8GB version, I bought a 4GB SDHC card to get me to 8GB, not to mention that I can buy as many as I like.

Like saints, I bought the D2 for its incredible battery life, SD expansion and direct line-in. That said, the Clix2 is a beautiful player with a great interface and I would have gotten it if not for the D2.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by dUANER

The touchscreen actually provides a very nice interface.

You forget that some people just don't like touchscreens.
Personally, I've yet to try one I've been impressed with, though I hold out hope for Neonode's N-Force interface.

Originally Posted by dUANER

As for an 8GB version, I bought a 4GB SDHC card to get me to 8GB, not to mention that I can buy as many as I like.

And lose them when you have to swap them over
There's no excuse, IMO, for them not have made an 8GB version. If they did, I might've bought it - I need 8GB now but am loathed to buy a memory card I'm just going to replace later on.

Originally Posted by dUANER

Like saints, I bought the D2 for its incredible battery life, SD expansion and direct line-in. That said, the Clix2 is a beautiful player with a great interface and I would have gotten it if not for the D2.

Am I not right in saying that the battery life drops off considerably when you use the card, leaving it no better than the Clix2?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by jeff

Both are nice players.

If you need to be able to navigate or use the player in any way without looking at it, you'll have to go with the clix 2 as you're a slave to the D2 since it uses touch screen.

I use my D2 all the time while it's in my pocket. In fact, probably 95% of using my D2 I do without looking at it. This is because there are three buttons on top you can set up for various functions while the D2 is on hold. I have Previous on the left button, Pause/Play on the middle button and Next on the right button. To control the volume I just flick it off hold and use the left or right button for respectively Volume Down and Volume Up.

What I am saying is: you can use the D2 as much without looking at it as you can the Clix2. Look at the list:
- can you navigate through the menus without looking at either player? No, of course not, you wouldn't know where you were going.
- can you operate either player blindly with functions such as volume control and track skipping? Yes.
- does the touchscreen on the D2 make you a 'slave' to the D2 more than the normal screen of the Clix2 does? No.

[saints]

Originally Posted by Step666

Am I not right in saying that the battery life drops off considerably when you use the card, leaving it no better than the Clix2?

True, but in my tests under real usage on 192-320kbps and powering on and off listening to stuff on sd card only, I think it was 25 real hours. What I did to take advantage of the battery life was to is to put all the music you constantly listen to in the internal memory and occasional on the sd card thus it makes it last well over the 35 hour range.

Has anyone tested the clix battery life under real conditions?, maybe the Op can put that on the report, thanks

[Step666]

Originally Posted by saints

What I did to take advantage of the battery life was to is to put all the music you constantly listen to in the internal memory and occasional on the sd card thus it makes it last well over the 35 hour range.

And therein lies the problem, some of us wouldn't be able to get all the stuff we listen to a lot onto the internal memory.

It's a shame, it looks to be almost a brilliant player.
It just doesn't have what I need

[saints]

Yeah step a 8gb version would be handy, but as you say there is no word on one becoming available.
The sd card issue you bring up has its merits, but once that 32gb one comes out and is affordable, it will be glued into my d2 and I will be sorted.

[Step666]

I honestly believe that before that happens, there will be affordable 32GB flash players on the market. I mean, 8GB DAPs are almost common but an 8GB SD card will break the bank.
And it will always be that way, with the memory cards taking longer to appear and being significantly more expensive.

As nice an idea as the memory card slot is, I still don't believe it should be the primary storage area (ie larger than the internal memory).

[musichound]

Originally Posted by Step666

You forget that some people just don't like touchscreens.

And I am one of these people. For some reason touch screens seem like more trouble than what they're worth. I think it takes less time and less work to use dedicated controls.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Judge

- can you navigate through the menus without looking at either player? No, of course not, you wouldn't know where you were going.

Ahhh but you can... setup your smart key to return to the main menu. then you only need to memorize how many clicks and what direction for various functions. No harder to do then what you're describing using the buttons on the D2 and then I can access the FM Radio, etc...

[dUANER]

Originally Posted by Step666

And lose them when you have to swap them over
There's no excuse, IMO, for them not have made an 8GB version. If they did, I might've bought it - I need 8GB now but am loathed to buy a memory card I'm just going to replace later on.

Even though I would prefer 8GB of internal memory, the SD expansion is precisely why I bought the D2. With an 8GB Clix, all you can ever have is 8GB. With my D2 I will eventually be able to have 36GB, at one time, plus however many additional cards I may want, making it virutally limitless. And by the way, even if I were to "lose" whatever I have on one card when I swap it with another, it is of no consequence since what I want is on the other card.

Originally Posted by Step666

Am I not right in saying that the battery life drops off considerably when you use the card, leaving it no better than the Clix2?

This has been addressed but I'll add my two cents just because I can. If one uses only the SD card, they will likely get better life than the Clix. Just by comparing the optimal playback hours as given by the manufacturers - 24 hours for the Clix2 and 52 hours for the D2 - is very telling in just how much more life you will get per charge out of a D2. My T30 is rated for 20 hours but there is no way I've ever gotten more than 18.

Like I said, the Clix2 is a great player, but you do get more bang-for-the-buck with a D2. And in the end all that matters is that they're not iPods.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by jeff

Ahhh but you can... setup your smart key to return to the main menu. then you only need to memorize how many clicks and what direction for various functions. No harder to do then what you're describing using the buttons on the D2 and then I can access the FM Radio, etc...

Where in the world would you navigate to blindly? Are you going to remember all the buttonpresses to every single song you have on the player? Your argument is like: Okay, I have 8000+ songs on my H340, but I can blindly access all of them by first pressing NAVI, then selecting the music folder (using Rockbox, of course), and just remember where the particular song is, oh yeah, a Mika song, that's select -> 5 down -> select -> 15 down or 7 up -> select -> select -> 3 down -> select -> done! Kind of useless to remember 8000 songs and their precise locations, no? If you are going to go through that lot of trouble, you might just as well memorise the locations of the navigation keys on the D2's touchscreen and presto!, you can do the same with the D2...

[Step666]

Originally Posted by dUANER

Even though I would prefer 8GB of internal memory, the SD expansion is precisely why I bought the D2. With an 8GB Clix, all you can ever have is 8GB.

I'm not saying that the Clix2 doesn't lack a memory card slot.

Originally Posted by dUANER

With my D2 I will eventually be able to have 36GB, at one time, plus however many additional cards I may want, making it virutally limitless.

And by the time that happens, I'll be able to buy a 32GB player for a fair amount less than the 32GB SDHC card will cost you, let alone what the SDHC card and D2 combined will have cost.
And, in the mean time, I can buy an 8GB DAP for less than a 4GB D2 + a 4GB card will cost.

Originally Posted by dUANER

And by the way, even if I were to "lose" whatever I have on one card when I swap it with another, it is of no consequence since what I want is on the other card.

I don't think you quite understand what I was saying - by relying on having to swap cards around, there is a risk you physically lose one of the cards.
Say you misplaced your 32GB SDHC card, you wouldn't be a happy bunny, would you?

Originally Posted by dUANER

This has been addressed but I'll add my two cents just because I can. If one uses only the SD card, they will likely get better life than the Clix. Just by comparing the optimal playback hours as given by the manufacturers - 24 hours for the Clix2 and 52 hours for the D2 - is very telling in just how much more life you will get per charge out of a D2. My T30 is rated for 20 hours but there is no way I've ever gotten more than 18.

But, equally, I can get more out of my Nano than you can out of a D2 using the memory card. I deep-cycled the battery when I first got it and both cycles lasted a fair bit more than the 24 hours that the Nano is rated at.
So, no, I disagree with the general point that the rated battery life of a player is necessarily indicative of how it will perform, though in the case of the Clix2 vs the D2, the difference is so huge that clearly the D2 will perform better.

Originally Posted by dUANER

Like I said, the Clix2 is a great player, but you do get more bang-for-the-buck with a D2. And in the end all that matters is that they're not iPods.

Er, yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Judge

Where in the world would you navigate to blindly? Are you going to remember all the buttonpresses to every single song you have on the player? Your argument is like: Okay, I have 8000+ songs on my H340, but I can blindly access all of them by first pressing NAVI, then selecting the music folder (using Rockbox, of course), and just remember where the particular song is, oh yeah, a Mika song, that's select -> 5 down -> select -> 15 down or 7 up -> select -> select -> 3 down -> select -> done! Kind of useless to remember 8000 songs and their precise locations, no? If you are going to go through that lot of trouble, you might just as well memorise the locations of the navigation keys on the D2's touchscreen and presto!, you can do the same with the D2...

No, that's not fair - there's a difference between memorising the button presses to reach a main function of a device and navigating it's entire contents.
And, if one does wish to navigate blindly, then a player with actual buttons will always win because you know if you've actually pressed it, there is a tactile element that touch screens lack.

[andrewmel]

If you want to navigate blindly then I think Rockbox will let you, as it can be set up for blind users

Just my 20 원 worth. (That is 20 Won, or about 2 cents.)

a

[jeff]

It's tit for tat really... some prefer touch screen, some prefer tactile feel.

I own both players and trade off using one or the other daily depending on my mood.

[Step666]

Well, yeah, I'm not saying the D2 is a bad DAP, far from it.
Just that everybody's tastes are different - what some people find a boon, others find a hindrance.

I know this is moving off-topic slightly but as nice as both the Clix2 and D2 are, I can't help but wonder that if I bought one, would it just be a waste of money?
I mean, they both lack what I find the single most useful feature of my Nano, which is out-and-out tininess. I find the size of the Nano incredibly useful and whilst it's be cool to have a player with an AMOLED screen and video playback or an SD slot and 52-hour battery life, I just wonder if I would ever use either of them in preference to my Nano.