emilyandlily

[psaturn]

Originally Posted by Snappy

I received my remote yesterday. All is well so far, definitely seems new. It did say that it was in the uk, but when it arrived it had come from us?! I think i may have been lucky this time, but definitely won't buy from them again after reading this!

I agree with you there, I am leery about ordering from them also after reading this thread.

[XR6]

I was thinking of buying off them. Not anymore!

[itsmeguys]

Originally Posted by XR6

I was thinking of buying off them. Not anymore!

good. emilyandlily have lost my respect. i thought they werent that bad until i read this thread, but, ohwell.

[badbrain88]

yeah, ive won a bid for a lcd remote. but, unfortunately afterwards, i read all the negative reviews. ive decided that even though ive won the bid im not gonna pay up. negative feedback (my 1st one) is less expensive.

i have no qualms about not paying due to false advertising, the remote is in the us not uk, so ill mostly likely be stung with the duty charges.

anyone know if duty/tax is charged for inter-EU postage, as ive seen the iriver europe site has some for sale (about £35 all in)???

[GEoMaNTiK]

This message was posted in another thread, then I realised good old emilyandlily have earned their own thread due to their crappy business standards and well deserved at that. READ ON for my BAD experience with them.

I'll give you my personal opinion, NEVER EVER BUY FROM EMILYANDLILY!!!

Okay so now that's off my chest, I'll give a bit of an explanation why I wouldn't consider purchasing anything from them ever again, however you should weigh up all the positives (and there are a heap of them) and negatives (not so many), but DO look closely at the Mutually Withdrawns - almost 2000 is a bit scary.

Anyway I purchased a H120, great price except for the crazy postage fees, received in approx 4 days from an Australian warehouse and within the first hour of use, songs were skipping all over the place. Ran a chkdsk /f which took all night, the hard drive ticked and ticked and ticked, showing a heap of sector errors by morning - not good enough for a listed BRAND NEW (not REFURB) player.

So got on the phone, explained what had happened, they asked for me to return it to them, did this the same day and waited and waited and waited some more.

After 2 weeks I followed up with them to find out what was happening, they told me they couldn't locate the return item, so I traced the parcel (thankfully I sent it back via registered) and they found the parcel had sat at the post office for a week until it was then signed for by the seller. So after taking this info to them, they took some more time and told me they would be sending a replacement.

Time went on, no replacement, so 5 weeks after my purchase off ebay I still didn't have my H120, so I called/emailed again and again and again until they were just not giving me any information that was useful on my replacement. Worst communication (or lack thereof) I've ever come across.

The only time they started to care about me was after I lodged a paypal dispute and left negative feedback. They offered a bribe to stop the dispute and when I wouldn't play ball because it hadn't been resolved - I wonder why, maybe it was because I never received the player, eventually they refunded my $$$.

Then they send an email asking for me to purchase the item again and it would be sent immediately as this to them would be the quickest way to fix the issue, I didn't respond because I couldn't find the words to type while in fits of laughter.

They tried to get me to mutually withdraw my neg feedback, bringing SquareTrader on board which if I had of ignored their request to sort out the issue, my negative feedback would have been removed by ebay. Then continue to offer me money, this time to remove neg feedback. NO CHANCE - DENIED!!!

Tell me how many people would have just said, ok give me the extra $$$ and have Mutually Withdrawn their feedback - almost 2000 people from the looks of things. These guys will try their absolute best to protect their business image and I don't blame them, they really did suck on this transaction.

Some other events happened during the paypal dispute & squaretrader situation which I will keep close to myself, they appear to be good and I'm sure they are but when things go bad, ohh man they go bad.

[riverpony]

Geomantik,

While I do think that your experience sounds very frustrating, it sounds like emilyandlily did try their best to make up for what happened to you, including bringing in a trusted 3rd party, square trade, to help to find out what could help you to resolve your problem.

I've been in the ebay world for quite some time and oftentimes what happens with powersellers is everything is an automatic process and unless you follow up with them, it's hard for a human to know what exactly is going on with your individual transaction.

If you look at the volume of sales that that store does on a daily basis just based on feedback (which is oftentimes a small percentage of the actual sales that are going on), they are pumping out hundreds of items everyday. There is bound to be error in some transactions. And oftentimes ebayers take this personally and don't look at the larger picture.

I've been both a buyer and a seller on ebay for years, and I firmly believe that ebay is about promoting both buyer and seller protection through the feedback system. You know what you're getting yourself into for the most part. Negative feedback is very damaging for any seller on ebay and is taken very seriously. Often times with powersellers, it is only when a dispute or a negative is left that management even knows that a problem has occured within a transaction. (BTW, whenever you open a paypal dispute it takes funds away from the seller, so you are often sent a payment reminder automatically, that was probably not from the seller themselves).

Just from spending 10 minutes looking at emilyandlily's feedback, I'm impressed. They are speedy in getting in touch with buyers that have left negative feedback, which means that they take their customers, especially those that have problems, very seriously. In the past year, this seller has received almost 83,000 positive feedbacks and only 74 negatives were unresolved. That's significantly less than .01 percent of the people that left feedback could not or would not resolve their problem with their transaction. Pretty impressive to me. Especially in the line of items that they sell, personal electronics are notorious for breaking on consumers, and the level of support that they provide to their customers is incredible from what I have read and seen on ebay. More often than not, consumers will blame the defectiveness of the product on the seller, especially in the world of eBay. I could go to the electronics store down the street and get a device that I want to use tonight only to find that it doesn't work. Is it the fault of the store that the item doesn't work? No. Do I expect them to take it back? Depends on the condition of sale. Same as in the ebay world. Sometimes a device just doesn't work. This could be an error that was caused by damage in shipping, an error that was caused because a system didn't support the player, or an error because the item was faulty to begin with. Many people don't understand that there is a percentage of electronics that just don't work coming straight from the manufacturer, be they brand new or refurbished. More often than not, again especially in ebay, the buyer will blame the seller for this. From all that you have said of the initial response from this store, they went above and beyond what a lot of sellers would do on ebay by offering you a replacement or a refund. Many sellers could have easily at this point just said "sorry, can't help you" or even the standard "bidder beware", but this is not good business and from every thing that you have said, not the policy of this seller. I can see your point that it did take quite a long time to receive your refund, but there are so many things that can go wrong in a returns process, that this delay does not surprise me in the least. I've gone three months waiting for a refund when an item was lost in the post. Was I upset? Of course. Did I blame the seller for this? Sometimes. Was it essentially their fault? Not really, they need to protect themselves from fraudulent buyers, and having been burned many times from both buyers and sellers, i understood this.

In the world of ebay, buyers often talk about being "bribed" to remove feedback. In my experience, I see that as more of a form of compensation. If you go to a restaurant and have a horrible experience, you often expect some type of compensation, such as having the meal comped by the manager. In ebay, there is usually only a monetary compensation available. I've both had it done to me as a buyer and done it myself as a seller. In the ebay community, it's a measure of good faith. It's letting the buyer know that you acknowledge the trouble that they've gone through. There is not a way to offer a buyer a coupon for 20% off their next purchase, so why not throw them a refund now for the trouble?

From what you've said here, I think that this seller tried their best to remedy the situation with you. Take a step back, was it really that horrible and outrageous? Do they really earn the negative feedback in the end? Did they do nothing to help you? It sounds like they tried for a long time after higher ups were alerted that there was a problem with your situation. To bring square trade in to help resolve this situation is a huge step, one that many ebayers don't do just because of the expense (square trade cases can be a fairly significant loss for sellers). I find that negatives that are left unresolved after there has been an attempt to resolve from the seller are petty and don't reflect the true nature of the ebay community nor the true nature of the transaction.

I came to this board to research the best ebayer to go through for the iRiver I'm getting for my son's birthday, and I think I've found it. I'm sorry that you feel that the level of service that you received was so horrible that this cannot be resolved, however I see a rating of over 130,000 as a fairly good sign that this buyer is trustworthy and an asset to ebay (not to mention the numerous stories I have heard from others on this board about the level of quality product that they have received from this seller!)

Sorry that my first post is this rant, but it really is disturbing to see consumers discredit a company completely when something goes wrong in a transaction, especially on ebay. We're all humans, and mistakes are a possibility in any transaction, ebay or not. When a company tries to make an effort to resolve a situation, it is disheartening to see buyers not recognize this and give the seller a chance to make wrongs right.

-Wanda

[Sabicas]

Regardless of how they tried to deal with the "mistakes," I do find fault with flat-out lying/misdirection. Read all of the posts about them - they are repeatedly selling used equipment as new, implying warranties that don't exist, selling gray-market goods as legitimate retail, etc. It certainly doesn't paint a picture of a totally upfront seller.

There are more posts about this seller, on this forum and others (they sell more than iRiver products) - I suggest reading them all.

People rant when they are personally affected by a transaction, often at the expense of logic. However, if you strip the emotion out of some of these complaints, there are real issues that should be considered.

For what it's worth, I have never bought anything from them. I sent them several e-mails asking specific, clear questions about what it is I would be receiving. They haven't answered one of them (it has been two weeks since I asked). I had my friend send them a few questions asking about simple things like shipping and model availability. They responded to him (relatively) quickly (generally the same day or overnight). Are they filtering the e-mails based on content? It certainly gives me the feeling they would rather not deal in open, upfront disclosure.

I wish you luck in your dealings with them. If you buy a product from them, please come back with your report.

[Nellip42]

In the interests of balance I though I should share my own experience of emilyandlily - I have posted in the other thread already on this issue.

A few weeks ago I decided to buy my first mp3 player. I did a bit of research and decided that a H120 would fit my requirements. Tracking one down was an issue and I then happened upon emilyandlily on ebay. At this point I did not know about misticriver so was not aware of the various threads in here about their service.

I placed a bid and won an H120 with remote. The ebay listing said the item was in the UK, and was new. It took about a week to clear the Penpal transaction, and while this was happening I found misticriver and started reading all the bad press. I started to feel pretty nervous about the transaction given what other posters were saying about the experiences.

Paypal issue was resolved on 30th June and I got a meesage to say the item was dispatched on 3rd July. My H120 arrived on the 5th, was posted in the UK, and does appear to be brand new with original packaging etc. So far I have had a week of trouble free use and my experience of emilyandlily was very good. They are a big sellar and you don't get a personal feel to the transaction, but I don't think you can expect that from a seller with over 100k sales.

They do seem keen to protect their positive feedback rating, but is that a bad thing? It is a very important part of trading on ebay and one can hardly blame them for attempting to protect that. If a person feels so strongly about a lack of service that they want to leave negative feedback, they are free to do so.

I do not want to offend those of you have had a bad experience with them, but human nature being what it is, people tend to be quick to criticize and slow to praise so I thought I would try and redress the balance a bit.

[tine]

Thanks NelliP, that seems fair enough, and you are right, you have to try and be balanced, and many people have also been happy with their dealings with Emilyand Lily. I find your story unembellished and credible. Emy and Lily's PR agent, I mean Wanda, above, could take a leaf out of your book.

[riverpony]

Just thought I'd update this and say that I haven't gone with this seller afterall because shortly after I posted a friend told me that they had a iFP-799 that they were selling, and since my son is going of to university soon and is an avid swimmer, I went with that one and am getting the waterproof case from iriver.
I posted here because I saw a great deal of people getting worked up about very common ebay frustrations. Like I said earlier, I am both a buyer and seller on ebay and see issues like those adressed here quickly turn from something that is easily managed into a mess that is completely out of hand. Ebay is great for the deals, but can be difficult because it is not like your local store that you can drop in and exchange something. Nor is it like a larger online store, as policies are variable depending on the seller. I just wanted to give my 2 cents (that resulted in much more) simply as an ebay user. I wish everyone luck in their dealings on ebay and just wanted to share experience as someone that spends 10-20 hours on ebay a week.

[GEoMaNTiK]

I thank you guys for the replies and the attempt at clearing emilyandlily from any wrong doing.

I'm an extremely patient person and very laid back in every day life, I believe giving people/companies a go and being fair is best practice and Getting worked up over a relatively small part of life isn't really necessary.

Let's face it, we all have more important things in our lives than little auction transactions like the ones 99% of us deal with on ebay.

However I refuse to be ignored, lied to and misled by people or companies who try to screw me over. Emilyandlily are PATHETIC in my eyes because they were totally full of #$^@ during a transaction I had with them.

So thats my opinion, I have been more than fair in being open and saying how many positive feedback scores they've received and how few negatives but have a monsterous Mutually Withdrawn responses which is in my eyes for good reason.

So for me I didn't get heated up, I played the whole thing pretty cool in my eyes, they were just never going to get me to withdraw my comments about them, my feedback was completely warranted and hopefully it helps them to respect other customers when they ask for help (over and over and over again).

Emilyandlily are so dodgy, they left negative feedback on a transaction for me for a remote control that I paid for immediately and had no probs with - except that I couldn't use it because they never replaced my mp3 player.

They thought by leaving 2 negatives on my name that I would have to withdraw, yeah right!!!

Quite simply for me - THE WORST EBAY COMPANY EVER!!!

So like my negative feedback towards them, this is my opinion based on a transaction gone bad, I'm not here to turn people off them, just to let everyone know what they have been and can be like.

[GEoMaNTiK]

Originally Posted by riverpony

Geomantik,

While I do think that your experience sounds very frustrating, it sounds like emilyandlily did try their best to make up for what happened to you, including bringing in a trusted 3rd party, square trade, to help to find out what could help you to resolve your problem.

I've been in the ebay world for quite some time and oftentimes what happens with powersellers is everything is an automatic process and unless you follow up with them, it's hard for a human to know what exactly is going on with your individual transaction.

If you look at the volume of sales that that store does on a daily basis just based on feedback (which is oftentimes a small percentage of the actual sales that are going on), they are pumping out hundreds of items everyday. There is bound to be error in some transactions. And oftentimes ebayers take this personally and don't look at the larger picture.

I've been both a buyer and a seller on ebay for years, and I firmly believe that ebay is about promoting both buyer and seller protection through the feedback system. You know what you're getting yourself into for the most part. Negative feedback is very damaging for any seller on ebay and is taken very seriously. Often times with powersellers, it is only when a dispute or a negative is left that management even knows that a problem has occured within a transaction. (BTW, whenever you open a paypal dispute it takes funds away from the seller, so you are often sent a payment reminder automatically, that was probably not from the seller themselves).

Just from spending 10 minutes looking at emilyandlily's feedback, I'm impressed. They are speedy in getting in touch with buyers that have left negative feedback, which means that they take their customers, especially those that have problems, very seriously. In the past year, this seller has received almost 83,000 positive feedbacks and only 74 negatives were unresolved. That's significantly less than .01 percent of the people that left feedback could not or would not resolve their problem with their transaction. Pretty impressive to me. Especially in the line of items that they sell, personal electronics are notorious for breaking on consumers, and the level of support that they provide to their customers is incredible from what I have read and seen on ebay. More often than not, consumers will blame the defectiveness of the product on the seller, especially in the world of eBay. I could go to the electronics store down the street and get a device that I want to use tonight only to find that it doesn't work. Is it the fault of the store that the item doesn't work? No. Do I expect them to take it back? Depends on the condition of sale. Same as in the ebay world. Sometimes a device just doesn't work. This could be an error that was caused by damage in shipping, an error that was caused because a system didn't support the player, or an error because the item was faulty to begin with. Many people don't understand that there is a percentage of electronics that just don't work coming straight from the manufacturer, be they brand new or refurbished. More often than not, again especially in ebay, the buyer will blame the seller for this. From all that you have said of the initial response from this store, they went above and beyond what a lot of sellers would do on ebay by offering you a replacement or a refund. Many sellers could have easily at this point just said "sorry, can't help you" or even the standard "bidder beware", but this is not good business and from every thing that you have said, not the policy of this seller. I can see your point that it did take quite a long time to receive your refund, but there are so many things that can go wrong in a returns process, that this delay does not surprise me in the least. I've gone three months waiting for a refund when an item was lost in the post. Was I upset? Of course. Did I blame the seller for this? Sometimes. Was it essentially their fault? Not really, they need to protect themselves from fraudulent buyers, and having been burned many times from both buyers and sellers, i understood this.

In the world of ebay, buyers often talk about being "bribed" to remove feedback. In my experience, I see that as more of a form of compensation. If you go to a restaurant and have a horrible experience, you often expect some type of compensation, such as having the meal comped by the manager. In ebay, there is usually only a monetary compensation available. I've both had it done to me as a buyer and done it myself as a seller. In the ebay community, it's a measure of good faith. It's letting the buyer know that you acknowledge the trouble that they've gone through. There is not a way to offer a buyer a coupon for 20% off their next purchase, so why not throw them a refund now for the trouble?

From what you've said here, I think that this seller tried their best to remedy the situation with you. Take a step back, was it really that horrible and outrageous? Do they really earn the negative feedback in the end? Did they do nothing to help you? It sounds like they tried for a long time after higher ups were alerted that there was a problem with your situation. To bring square trade in to help resolve this situation is a huge step, one that many ebayers don't do just because of the expense (square trade cases can be a fairly significant loss for sellers). I find that negatives that are left unresolved after there has been an attempt to resolve from the seller are petty and don't reflect the true nature of the ebay community nor the true nature of the transaction.

I came to this board to research the best ebayer to go through for the iRiver I'm getting for my son's birthday, and I think I've found it. I'm sorry that you feel that the level of service that you received was so horrible that this cannot be resolved, however I see a rating of over 130,000 as a fairly good sign that this buyer is trustworthy and an asset to ebay (not to mention the numerous stories I have heard from others on this board about the level of quality product that they have received from this seller!)

Sorry that my first post is this rant, but it really is disturbing to see consumers discredit a company completely when something goes wrong in a transaction, especially on ebay. We're all humans, and mistakes are a possibility in any transaction, ebay or not. When a company tries to make an effort to resolve a situation, it is disheartening to see buyers not recognize this and give the seller a chance to make wrongs right.

-Wanda

Geez us, talk about an employee or close friend of someone at emilyandlily.

2 Posts on this board and you're this passionate about a trader whom you've NEVER used, so what the $#%& are you talking about???

Don't come here trying to plead for E&L's case, they don't need it, why do you think I purchased from these guys in the first place?? The HUGE amount of positive feedbacks, that's why...

Now that I know what they are like, they are not worth the score they've received IN MY OPINION!!!

Your funniest line in the entire post is the last - When a company tries to make an effort to resolve a situation, it is disheartening to see buyers not recognize this and give the seller a chance to make wrongs right.

THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM IS OUR CHANCE TO REFLECT ON A TRANSACTION AND IT WAS BAD FROM START TO FINISH, THEY DID NOT RESOLVE THE SITUATION BECAUSE I NEVER RECEIVED THE REPLACED PLAYER THAT I ASKED FOR SO MANY TIMES, I DIDN'T WANT A REFUND - I WANTED THE PLAYER I PAID FOR AND HAD PURCHASED A REMOTE FOR - SO THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK IS WARRANTED AND STAYS PUT, I JUST WISH OTHERS WOULD TAKE A STAND AND NOT BE BRIBED BY AN OFFER OF $20 TO SHUT UP.

[riverpony]

i came here to post as an avid ebay user and share my experience with ebay in general. i know that there can be problems with ebay transactions, and sometimes newer users are quick to jump on sellers when there are problems and issues that can be remedied turn into huge problems that are out of hand. that was why i offered my experience and opinions in this matter.

i personally don't care whether you leave the feedback up or not. i was just saying that it seems like this seller tried to make amends from what you posted about them. you have stated that you don't mean to turn people off of their store, but you have stated "THE WORST EBAY COMPANY EVER!!!" as well as "NEVER EVER BUY FROM EMILYANDLILY!!!" that is what i'm addressing. from their feedback, they seem very reputable. and it is disappointing across the board when a transaction goes wrong. however, this is something that from what you have stated seems like they tried to remedy.

i was simply expressing my point of view from someone that spends a lot of time dealing with ebay transactions. i am sorry that me expressing this is so highly offensive to you. i can see now why there was no resolution for you in this situation.

[jumbuck]

Well emilyandlily dont sell in iriver in australia any more!!!


YIPPEEE!!!

[danshe]

I got my 320 from E and L and it works fine. I stand by my negative opinion of them however. I've already posted my problem with them and I think that, given my experience as both a buyer and seller at ebay, that their dishonest behavior is not the norm. I dont understand how they have such high positive ratings.
They may no longer do this but when I was buying they listed as new 320s ones that were refurbs. The other seller of 320's clearly marked which were refurbs and which were new. E and L had nothing anywhere in their description to show that they were selling refurbs.

[GEoMaNTiK]

Originally Posted by jumbuck

Well emilyandlily dont sell in iriver in australia any more!!!


YIPPEEE!!!

Hey man, thanks for the heads up on this.... great news and maybe all the hassles they've caused has come back to bite their rears here in oz.

At the end of the day and as the days roll on, people will catch on to dodgy behaviour but it does make decisions tough when you see such great positives and limited negative responses and then have a nightmare from a company lying through their teeth.

If only those people who sold out and mutually agreed to remove feedback had stood their ground and their true feelings were realised, E&L would have over 2500 negs, that would make the decision easy and you would never buy from them.

[jumbuck]

Originally Posted by GEoMaNTiK

If only those people who sold out and mutually agreed to remove feedback had stood their ground and their true feelings were realised, E&L would have over 2500 negs, that would make the decision easy and you would never buy from them.

So true. And you cant help but wonder how many left pos feedback before they had problems.

[itsmeguys]

Originally Posted by danshe

I got my 320 from E and L and it works fine. I stand by my negative opinion of them however. I've already posted my problem with them and I think that, given my experience as both a buyer and seller at ebay, that their dishonest behavior is not the norm. I dont understand how they have such high positive ratings.
They may no longer do this but when I was buying they listed as new 320s ones that were refurbs. The other seller of 320's clearly marked which were refurbs and which were new. E and L had nothing anywhere in their description to show that they were selling refurbs.

Did emilyandlily give you a positive feedback? I'm just wondering, as in, if you gave them neg so they gave you neg type of thing ....

[GEoMaNTiK]

Originally Posted by itsmeguys

Did emilyandlily give you a positive feedback? I'm just wondering, as in, if you gave them neg so they gave you neg type of thing ....

Of course they left negative feedback, that's their bargaining tool for getting customers to mutually withdraw feedback.

Funny that they gave me 2x Negative Feedback which were for the H120 and a Remote control I got for it just after my player win.

I paid immediately after winning for both items via Paypal and they told the ebay world to watch out for this buyer, hahaha I just laughed and agreed with them on my reply that all sellers should beware of me if they try to screw me over like e&l.