Player advice/suggestions please

[caligula]

Hi all,

Been ages since ive been on here but I am looking to buy a new dap and wondered what the suggestions are at the moment?

A little history, my first ever player was the iriver h340 (I know, I think it spoilt me as I have a suspicion no other players even today can come close to the functionality of that player?) and then a few months later bought an ipod nano for use in the gym seeing as they were solid state as opposed hdd. Anyway I digress...

Now, I still have the h340 and nano but am after upgrading to something a little more modern and smaller (than the h340 anyway) and would like something with the functionality and features of the h340 but with the design cues of the apple i.e. lithe, tactile, classy, stylish etc.

Basically, whats out there at the moment from apple and iriver both flash memory and hdd. Storage size, well, I only have 18 gigs of music full stop, but, as with most things storage wise, more is more.

Now, solid state flash memory would be useful as I plan on using this in the gym, however, I am not one of those who hit the treadmill at 30 mph, more of a weightlifter really so feel that isnt much of an issue tbh?

So, I wondered what peoplkes recommendations where at the moment for the best most fully featured dap payers are, bearing in miond, I always appreciated the auio quality that the h340 afforded.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions guys

Take it easy and Happy New Year

[Step666]

How much music do you have?

If you need a proper high-cap. player (>40GB), then either the iPod Classic or the ZV:M.
If you've got less music then there are a series of flash-based possibilities, including the Creative Zen (available in up to 32GB and has an SD slot), the iAudio D2 (up to 8GB + SDHC) or the Sansa View (up to 16GB and possibly 32GB at some point fairly soon + MicroSDHC).

Sound quality wise, I don't think any of these are frowned on particularly, however the iPod is possibly considered the poorest of the lot and the Cowon/iAudio the top, though the Sansa is also considered very highly by some.

[caligula]

Hi Step,

Appreciate the reply, thanks a lot! Well, I have 18 gigs of music but it is all currently encoded as mp3 at 128kbps (my h340 is all ogg but it seems to be alone in providing ogg support?) and would like the opportunity to encode lossless and at much higher bit rates, (I cant even spell audiophile but there is a definite increase in depth and richness at higher bitrates) presumably I would be looking at roughly 60 gigs as a minimum if I was to do that? With this in mind I have ordered some etymotic research er6i phones in the hope that whatever I get the sq will be enhanced that little bit further, having never spent more than £50 on headphones previously, I am, perhaps misguidedly, placing my trust in these in ear phones but after reading around they seem to be up there with the shure's and people seem to regard the shure's as the benchmark so...fingers crossed lol

Anyway, wow I never realised flash memory based players were available up to 32 gigs, if Apple made the touch at 32 gigs then my decision would have been made. Albeit restricted in terms of amount of torage.

I have been doing some more thinking and although I am slightly offput by your suggestion of the apple's classic sq the storage size would provide the ability for all my music to be encoded in one place at a high bitrate and even afford a little longevity as a result of further storage allowing me to place my music on there as my collection grows.

I have had a look at the sensa but feel the 16 gig would probably be too restrictive. Following reading another thread on here about the zune, I checked that out but the style cues (which admittedly, are irrelevant when the player is sat in your pocket) leave me uninspired along with the seemingly weak market penetration meaning there would be little in the way of development, both by microsoft and indeed any 3rd parties presumably?

I do have to say that the ipod classic simply by virtue of its storage capacity and design cues is looking favourable, but again, the sq issue does have me slightly worried. I always did appreciate, and felt that the h340 had pretty damn good sq, I am almost angry that river have never taken the h300 series and ran with it evolving it over time as I have no doubt in my mind I wouldn't be here now deciding what player to get if they had of done that...

Anyway, much appreciate the input, anyone else have anything to contribute please feel free.

Cheers

[BBD]

I went from the H320 (which I loved like woman....) to the 80GB Classic when the H320 finally breathed its last. I listen to the 'pod using the "Flat" setting and the SQ is very good. Don't let that concern you. If it were otherwise, the "'pod Flaming" thread woulda been posted long ago.

Perhaps more later....

[Step666]

I didn't mean to imply that the SQ of the 'Pods was bad but I doubt you'll find anyone would rate it ahead of the likes of the D2.
It's probably on a par with the other players I listed, except maybe the Sansa View, which seems to polarise opinion.

That said, from what I've read, the Touch isn't all that well thought of - I've seen people saying things like 'we all know the iPods aren't the best for SQ and the Touch isn't even the best of the iPods' or words to that effect.

[BBD]

Originally Posted by Step666

I didn't mean to imply that the SQ of the 'Pods was bad but I doubt you'll find anyone would rate it ahead of the likes of the D2.

Oh, I didn't take it that way...just responding to the OP....

That said, from what I've read, the Touch isn't all that well thought of - I've seen people saying things like 'we all know the iPods aren't the best for SQ and the Touch isn't even the best of the iPods' or words to that effect.

I've read similar impressions and the Touch sounds a bit weak, hollow, etc.

The D2, as most Cowon players do, seems to garner near-universal praise for its SQ....

[caligula]

Hi Guys,

thanks again for all the input, it is really very much appreciated and after spending an hour or two of reading the forums it is noticeable how much the ipods seem to have gone up in people's estimations of late, well I suppose in justifiable comparison of previous ipods against competition such as the h340 in years passed.

Well, the info garnered from this thread and a few more dotted around these forums, and then with the discovery that my newly ordered er6i's were designed with ipods, although I suspect dap's more generally, in mind, I have opted for the ipod classic, the sheer storage size along with the price point (which again, seems to be another observation that the ipods are relatively cheaper than they used to be? of course though, my memory could be faulty lol) swung my decision.

Thanks again for the input, can't wait for it to arrive, but more bizarrely perhaps, I am actually looking forward to the ear phones arriving more than the ipod lol, although my h340 is still working so maybe thats why? :P

[melodyh40]

Just curious - you went with the new 160GB Ipod classic? Or the 80GB Ipod Video? I only ask since the new Classic is not Rockboxable, while reportedly the Video is.

When you get it, could you hop on here and let us know what you think? Thanks!

[caligula]

Hi,

I opted for the 160 gig classic, I went for this size as the increased bitrate I want to use along with the ability to accomodate a growing music collection over time will be facilitated better by the 160, plus of course using it as an extra generic storage device for pdf's and documents etc will prove very useful.

Having said all that tbh, I was under the impression that the 80 and the 160 where both known as 6th gen classics? Perhaps I should rephrase that, I thought the 6th gen classic came in 2 flavours i.e. 80 and 160 gb both being able to play video? *edit* Ah I see the 80 gig video is 5.5 gen, no I went with the classic, cheers. *edit*

However, as for rockbox, my h340 is rockboxed and it is quite superb what it is capable of, but I am more than happy with just running rockbox on the h340. I did check the rockbox forums out regarding a port to the ipod but whether or not it is possible, it seems the inclination isnt there above and beyond any other concerns which is more than understandable. I will however come back with my impressions of both the ipod and the headphones actually and I can use those to directly compare the differences in sound between the 2 machines.

[Step666]

Yes, there is an 80GB Classic but there was also an 80GB 5.5G iPod Video which is RockBox-able.

[caligula]

Ah yeah I realised soon after I posted hence the *edit* cheers for that!

[caligula]

Ive had the ipod a few days now and fairly happy with it. The earphones have yet to arrive so the sound quality is ok but nothing to wite home about. It sn't bad, but by the same token, I am usng stock apple ear phones and I don't feel transported to another time/place whenI close my eyes and listen to the music.

Graphically it look very slick, but ultimately, the whole cover flow business is a gimmick, one big fat gimmicky gimmick lol yeah it looks nice but doesnt "do" anything.

Itines is a major pita, I mean seriously. I have read over on ilounge that if you can just relax and sit back and treat itunes as the front end of your music collection while you leave it to do its thing behind the scenes ordering the files and folders etc you should be happy but boy, is it hard work not goi into the directory and just draggign and dropping etc, I HATE that aspect of itunes.

Aditionally, which is a major pita for me, athough again, purely form an aesthetic perspective, is that the album art is does display, it quite often displays it twice, for example if an artist has a song thy have collaborated with someone with it willdisplay two albums, two album arts etc in the cover flow menu. Admittedly, this could be down to me and the way I navigate my music etc but I just dont want itunes messing with this stuff, just leave the songs in the correct folders etc.

So yeah, itunes sucks big ones if I am honest, but as mentioned, that is more than possibly down to my naivety with the software and in time I can get it whipped into shape perhaps?

Battery life, well, it is truly incredile, I am impressed in a big way with it, watching fils, listening to music etc battery life is hardcore.

Other than that, what to say? Storage capacity a massive boon for me, I have already filled 60 gigs without even trying, although that was with increasing my rips to 224 kbps mp3 after trying the first 10 albums in wav lol but the hdd space was QUICKLY depleting so compression came out of the armory lol

Anyway, I just ordered a sansa clip too as that little beauty by all accounts has amazing sound quality (for what it is) and is uber small and or 30 quid you cant go wrong.

Rockbox is a bit of a downer I suppose for both the clip and the ipod and after re acquainting myself with the delights of rockbox on my h340 I have a feeling I will miss it so I may in time explore some of the oter sansa players which can take rockbox.

Over all though, I am happy-ish with the ipod, it does everything I want it to do, albeit let down by itunes and is certainly let down by not having rb support and the sound quality, well, I can better comment on that when the earphones arrive.

Ultimately though, it hasn't slaked my thirst, immediately or otherwise, for investigative forays into other daps and as such, perhaps says a lot more than I ever could?

[BBD]

I would have to agree with that assessment as well, though I don't find iTunes nearly as obtrusive as I thought it would be. New 'phones should make a world of difference....

If I may--had you bought the Sansa e200 (in w/e GB), Rockbox would be available to ya...just sayin' an' such....

Let us know how you get along, though.

[caligula]

I have used itnes for my nano (2nd gen) bu only ever with podcasts and as such does its job admirably, this is my first experience using it for my music collection and it doesn't half take some getting used to when you have been used to drag n drop etc.

Yea I can't wait for the earphones to arrive, nothing exceptional but they will be the very best earphones I have ever had so am really looking forward to those arriving.

The sansa, if I wasn' all spent up after christmas and the ipod etc I would have got the sensa e250 purely for rockbox capability, but as it was a touch more expensive than the clip... maybe next month actually, the moe I read about the sandisk players the more I like.

On a side note, has anyone discovered sufjan stevens? I heard of him a year or two ago, just one song, and then forgot about him, anyway yesterday I gathered a couple of his albums... WOW of course, you can't get any more subjective than musical taste, but seriously, check this guy out, he KICKS MAJOR ARSE, truly magnificent and I wholeheartedly recommend him to anyone.Do yourself a favour and gift yourself the beauty that is sufjan lol

[caligula]

Earphones arrived this morning... WOW, I mean seriuosly, the difference betwen these and the stock ipod and the stock iriver earphones is vast. I ws worried that I was expecting too much in the anticipation of them but I have not been let down.
I listened to the same track ripped at the same bitrate on the h340 and the ipod. First, lets make no bones about it, the ipod's sound quality is good, there is no getting away from it, clear, crisp, well defined, I was pleased.

Then I tried the h340, again, I knew this would be good because it sounds good with the stock earbuds and the ipod buds too. To try and explian and quantify the difference between the pod and the h340 though I can only attempt by saying the h340 sounded fuller, deeper, had more depth. The ipod sounded clean and crisp, not tinny but felt more lithe somehow where as the h340 sounded more mature, a wider, bigger and deeper sound generally.

Being able to compare the two devices and recognising and appreciating the differences they posses I would quite like to get my grubby mits on a cowon/iaudio and see how well they perform alongside these.

[BBD]

Gee--why would you be worried about deletion?

[Mus]

Is it true that they crippled the volume on European iPod Classics?

I need a supplemental player to my H160

[BBD]

Yeah, the EU version has a volume cap.

[Mus]

And how do people find that?

[BBD]

There's quite a few complaints about it on *aherm* another site, but I don't recall anyone finding a way around it......

[caligula]

The volume cap to me is unnoticeable, bu then again never like music played dead loud unless its through my hifi speakers though tbh, its too uncomfortable piped directly intoyour ears at silly volumes.

I recognise we are all different though and perhaps, as BBD points out, it is a problem for some?

Having said that, it sounds loud to me.