FINALLY: iTunes Deemed Illegal!

[BBD]

A snappy l'il article in gizmodo that simply codifies what I have believed all along re: DRM of any kind: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-...way-232155.php

Originally Posted by linky-therein

'“I understand that a company feels the need to protect its products from piracy,” said Thon in 2006. “However, this should not negatively affect customers who through lawful means have obtained downloaded files. Today, iTunes´ use of DRM-technology renders the customers without rights in dealing with a company which on a whim can dictate what kind of access customers will have to products they have already paid for.”

Then again, maybe the Norse are just prejudiced against American companies....

[Buckfast]

Bet nothing happens though...

[BBD]

Originally Posted by Buckfast

Bet nothing happens though...

You wouldn't say that if you were Norwegian!!!

[musichound]

I damn well agree it should be illegal. Hopefully it will force Apple to develop a version of DRM that can play on all DRM devices instead.

[threeeyes]

seems for once Apple is falling behind the times. HERE is an article from last week talking about Universal Music Group moving into the future of media distribution and striking license deals with the likes of MySpace, YouTube and Microsoft. Of course the profit margin loss would be a price increase passed onto the consumers, but if that's what it takes to destroy DRM, then I say so be it.

[Step666]

I can tell you exactly what this is going to cause happen.
Apple'll just shut the Norwegian iTunes store and that'll be that, screw the Norwegians.

And, to be fair, they have a point.
They're being singled out, none of the other music stores are getting the same sort of heat. Possibly because the governments involved reckon that if they can break Apple, everyone else'll just fold but they run the risk of Apple just sticking up two fingers and ignoring them.


Rather more interesting than the outcome of this case will be what happens Germany and France start to pull up Apple on similar charges.
Both countries have already started investigating iTunes for breach of competition laws and, unlike Norway, Apple can't really afford to lose them. Especially given that between them, they can pretty much make a decision for the entirety of the EU...

[BBD]

Agreed...Norway by itself is no big deal to (cr)Apple, but if they start the domino effect among EU membership, maybe...just maybe there's a shot at bringing some real fairplay back to the consumers and artists.

[Step666]

Well, no, you misunderstand, a bit.
Norway is completely separate - ignore them, they're not in the EU.

France has, for well over a year, been pushing against DRM-based music services, they've called for both Apple and Microsoft to open up their services (that was back when MS were still supporting 'PlaysForSure').
They're the driving force behind the EU demanding MS open up the kernel of Vista, they're really not digging these monopolies.

Norway will stand or fall on it's own, no-one cares. As someone said over on iLounge, there's probably only 3 blokes and a goat in Norway that use iTunes.
But, Apple's problem is France and Germany. No matter how they deal with the Norwegians, they won't be able to bully those two, they have too much power and they contain too many customers.

[BBD]

Originally Posted by Step666

Well, no, you misunderstand, a bit.
Norway is completely separate - ignore them, they're not in the EU.

See, if I weren't bigoted against Norwegians, I woulda known! Thanks for correcting my ignorance....

[Step666]

No, don't worry about it.
The point I was trying to make is that if the EU comes down on Apple over iTunes, it won't be because Norway stood up to them.

[trigger bacon]

Norway rocks.

[Mike]

The reason to "pick on" Apple: it has, what, 75% of the market share, including because once you download its format of music, you're absolutely stuck with Apple and iTunes and Apple players.

[Step666]

iTunes being successful doesn't make them any more or less illegal than any other DRM-based service.
It wouldn't be preposterous of Apple to take the view that they are being unfairly targeted in all this.

As for being tied into one system, surely the Zune and the Zune marketplace are even worse - it's not one brand of player, it's just one player.


If the governments of these various countries are targeting Apple first from the point-of-view that if you can force them to back down, everyone else will follow suit then it's just about understandable but, if not, then this is an unfair and probably illegal witch-hunt.

[mikachu_84]

steph666 is right. the EU, with France and Germany in the lead, are trying to get a ban on ANY kind of coding that restricks a paying user from fully using the tracks. Whether it's Apple or Microsoft. But these two are like the 'two big ones' that hold most of the market share. The EU has for instance also called against an opening up of the mediaplayer market. Now it's Microsoft's WMP that is installed standard on all computers, but what about realplayer & winamp and the nameless other players out there?? The EU is going against THAT monopoly as well.

[Step666]

See, now I don't disagree with Microsoft pre-loading stuff into their OSs (nor Apple doing it but I don't own and probably never will own a Mac, so it makes little-to-no difference to me).
Unlike the case of DRM-ed music, pre-loading an app into an OS does not stop the user from installing other, similar apps. You could install every media player going on your computer if you so wished, the fact that WMP is already their has absolutely no bearing on it.

More of a problem, IMO, are the proprietary formats that are associated with the different players - Quicktime and the Real format being the worst two as the players they're associated with both suck [enter expletive of your choice here - personally I was going for something involving donkey genitalia], a fact which isn't helped by Firefox not being compatible with the 'alternatives' that are available.

[mikachu_84]

Originally Posted by Step666

See, now I don't disagree with Microsoft pre-loading stuff into their OSs (nor Apple doing it but I don't own and probably never will own a Mac, so it makes little-to-no difference to me).
Unlike the case of DRM-ed music, pre-loading an app into an OS does not stop the user from installing other, similar apps. You could install every media player going on your computer if you so wished, the fact that WMP is already their has absolutely no bearing on it.

More of a problem, IMO, are the proprietary formats that are associated with the different players - Quicktime and the Real format being the worst two as the players they're associated with both suck [enter expletive of your choice here - personally I was going for something involving donkey genitalia], a fact which isn't helped by Firefox not being compatible with the 'alternatives' that are available.

I know I feel your pain on the quicktime and realplayer things. Hate those two players as well, thank god I don't have too many realplayer/quicktime files.

As for file extensions: I don't really mind wma, as long as it isn't protected. That is just bs if you ask me...

The reason why the EU wants WMP out of the standard Microsoft package is because anyone who doesn't know or who doesn't wanna take an effort are simply stuck with WMP cuz they are not informed about other players. That's the problem they are after.

[Step666]

Well then, are they planning to go after Apple for making you install Quicktime along with iTunes, even though iTunes doesn't require Quicktime to work, it just requires it for you to be allowed to install iTunes.

[mikachu_84]

I wouldn't know it's just what I read in the paper lolz.

[Step666]

I think the EU goes too far sometimes.

There is a point about proprietary formats, they should be done away with (especially the Real player one, God that program sucks so much) as they limit user choice, they tie you into a specific player.
However, to go after MS for pre-loading software into the OS is just over-reacting IMO. Most people would be really rather annoyed if they bought their new copy of Windows then found they had to go and download Internet Explorer, WMP and all the rest of the included apps. Also, without having a web browser there when you start, how would you be able to go to a website and download one?

There comes a time when you have to stop legislating to protect the dumbest most ignorant parts of society. If they can't be bothered to find stuff out for themselves then that's their problem.

[ShyAnne]

Originally Posted by Step666

There comes a time when you have to stop legislating to protect the dumbest most ignorant parts of society. If they can't be bothered to find stuff out for themselves then that's their problem.

Amen! I am so tired of legislation (among other things) specifically designed to accommodate the least common denominator. How can some folks ever hope to lift themselves out of ignorance with so many "protective" laws? It's downright insulting to those folks anyway as it begins with the broad assumption that they are simply incapable.

It does seem like Apple is being singled out but sounds like a usual political tactic, go after the head of the hydra to kill the whole beast.

[Step666]

Originally Posted by ShyAnne

It does seem like Apple is being singled out but sounds like a usual political tactic, go after the head of the hydra to kill the whole beast.

I'm sorry, that made me chuckle - you could not have chosen a worse metaphor.
If you remove the head of a hydra, two more grow back in it's place...

[ShyAnne]

Step, not remove or cut it off - slash and burn like a politician. Start with the big one first, the smaller ones are easier.